VOGONS


First post, by noshutdown

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heres what i think, and i could be wrong:

roland:
sc series: economic computer and consumer oriented line, supported gm and gs(sc88pro and later had unofficial support for xg), very popular but didn't produce best sound quality, and lacked some features like detailed patch and effect tuning and presets from professional models.
jv/xv series, phantom series and integra7: professional models for music production and performance, supported gm2 but no gs.
mt32 and u series: old models that predated the sc series, didn't support gm or gs.
cm series: further cut down versions of sc55 and mt32 with no control, just make sound.
sd series(20/50/70/90): semi-professional models that lied between sc and jv/xv series, supported gm, gs and unofficially xg, better sound quality than sc but features were still not so detailed as the professional line. not very popular probably because consumer synthesizers were already fading out by then.

yamaha:
mu series: equivalent of sc and sd series, supported gm, xg and unofficially gs(tg300b mode). not as popular as sc in gamers but still did quite well, and i have a feeling that mu was a bit more serious than sc, comparable to the semi-professional sd instead.
motif series: professional models for music production and performance, supported gm2 but no gs.
tg series: old models that predated mu series, older tg33/55/77 didn't support gm while newer tg100/300/500 did.
however, i dunno what was the yamaha equivalent of jv/xv series before motif was out?

Reply 1 of 8, by yawetaG

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Of course, both manufacturers have many more MIDI synthesizers than what you mention in this thread, but what you mean is General MIDI, which is a subset of MIDI... 😀

noshutdown wrote on 2020-05-28, 02:06:
heres what i think, and i could be wrong: […]
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heres what i think, and i could be wrong:

roland:
sc series: economic computer and consumer oriented line, supported gm and gs(sc88pro and later had unofficial support for xg), very popular but didn't produce best sound quality, and lacked some features like detailed patch and effect tuning and presets from professional models.
jv/xv series, phantom series and integra7: professional models for music production and performance, supported gm2 but no gs.
mt32 and u series: old models that predated the sc series, didn't support gm or gs.
cm series: further cut down versions of sc55 and mt32 with no control, just make sound.
sd series(20/50/70/90): semi-professional models that lied between sc and jv/xv series, supported gm, gs and unofficially xg, better sound quality than sc but features were still not so detailed as the professional line. not very popular probably because consumer synthesizers were already fading out by then.

MT32 and D-series (and some CM modules; excepting D70): LA (Linear Arithmetic) synthesizers, use partials to build up sounds. Partials basically are hacked up PCM samples.
U-series, D70, MV30: predecessors of JV-series. U-series have very limited edit, D70 and MV30 add almost full edit, all expandable via ROM cards, all but MV-30 can also use RAM cards (MV30 uses floppy for that). MV30 has proto-General MIDI bank (but can only use 8 MIDI channels).
JD-series: very high end direct predecessor of JV-series.
JV-series. JV80/90/1000 are the original models, no GM bank. JV30/35/50 are GM synthesizers based on the SC-55 using the JV-name. JV1080 and later are better, more capable models with JV-engine. VE-JV1 card is JV80 engine on a board with 512 patches from JV-1000 and particular ROM card; it fits the JV90/1000/35/50.
SC-series: very dumbed down JV hardware (except SC-55, which uses a different CPU) with virtually no edit and no ability to save custom patches. VE-GS1 is SC-55Mk. II engine with SC-88 CPU etc. on a board and fits the JV90/1000/35/50. Exception is SC-880, which is a almost completely editable 19" rack version of SC-88 more akin to D70/MV30, and the "Pro" models.
CM-series: headless versions of CM/SC modules, only editable via MIDI (just like SC-55ST).
XV/XP-series: successors to JV-series, more sophisticated (but less loved) sound. XP-10 is GM synth using XP name.
Fantom: successor to XV/XP.
Integra7: Final Roland rompler module, integrates all XV expansion cards internally.

yamaha: mu series: equivalent of sc and sd series, supported gm, xg and unofficially gs(tg300b mode). not as popular as sc in ga […]
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yamaha:
mu series: equivalent of sc and sd series, supported gm, xg and unofficially gs(tg300b mode). not as popular as sc in gamers but still did quite well, and i have a feeling that mu was a bit more serious than sc, comparable to the semi-professional sd instead.
motif series: professional models for music production and performance, supported gm2 but no gs.
tg series: old models that predated mu series, older tg33/55/77 didn't support gm while newer tg100/300/500 did.

TG-33: ghetto vector FM synthesis module with very particular sound. FM section later used for Japan-exclusive Yamaha B500/B700 AWM/FM keyboards.
TG-55: AWM (PCM) 19" module. Various keyboards versions exist.
TG-77: The best FM module ever. 6-operator advanced FM + AWM with cross modulation.
FB-01: very cutdown 4 operator FM module.
TX-81Z/WT-11/YS-100/YS-200/etc.: normal 4-operator FM synths, some with easy edit.
TG-500/RM-50: Successor to TG-55 with much better edit options. RM-50 is drum-oriented version. Expandable RAM.
TG-300: Approximately half a TG-500 with proto-XG GM bank. Sounds are still fully editable including elements.
TG-100: GM/AWM module.
MU-series: Successors to TG 100/300/500 line aimed at semi-pro market. Minimal edit limited to XG standard and no user-patches on most models. MU-10 is actually half a QS300 synth and fully editable (TG300B mode is based on QS300, not TG300!). MU1000/2000 are also more editable. MU100 and later take 1 or more PLG expansion boards.
CS-series and S-series: AWM2 synths, fully editable (up to 4 elements per patch), no GM.
Motif-series and S90 and later: AWM2 synths, support GM, fully editable (up to 8 elements per patch)

however, i dunno what was the yamaha equivalent of jv/xv series before motif was out?

TG-500/300, later CS-6.

Reply 2 of 8, by noshutdown

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yawetaG wrote on 2020-05-28, 05:56:

TG-77: The best FM module ever. 6-operator advanced FM + AWM with cross modulation.

isn't it the fs1r?

however, i dunno what was the yamaha equivalent of jv/xv series before motif was out?
TG-500/300, later CS-6.

tg-300/500 seems too old to match the jv1080/2080, also i think the ex5r was a match for the roland xv.

Reply 3 of 8, by SuperDeadite

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FS1R is the ultimate FM beast 8 ops per channel. Only recommended for true FM gods.

TG33 is odd, but I wouldn't call it ghetto. It is an improved SY22. And SY22 sounds wonderful when used correctly. The X68000 game Group X actually has an exclusive soundtrack for this synth.
https://youtu.be/Add1kL696pw

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, Dreamblaster X2, McFly

Reply 4 of 8, by j^aws

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TG77 can do things the FS1R can't and vice-versa. Besides the 6 FM ops vs 8 FM ops, the TG77 can modulate AWM with its Advanced FM synthesis as well as import samples (RAM cards) and use AFM, whilst the FS1R can do Formant synthesis which sounds like freaky vocoder stuff.

Yamaha OPL4 should've been more like the TG77.

I've picked up quite a few Roland and Yamaha synths over the years. They mostly have their own flavours. Currently waiting to rack most of them and test them out sometime.

Reply 5 of 8, by SuperDeadite

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I always saw OPL4 as just the next budget pc sound card synth. Basically just an OPL3 with a simple Wave Table Rom bank, and a few megs of
memory for additional samples. Don't think it was ever meant to compete with stand alone synths. Still a great sounding and fun to play with
chip though. Especially if you get into the MSX world.

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, Dreamblaster X2, McFly

Reply 6 of 8, by yawetaG

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noshutdown wrote on 2020-05-28, 09:54:
yawetaG wrote on 2020-05-28, 05:56:

TG-500/300, later CS-6.

tg-300/500 seems too old to match the jv1080/2080, also i think the ex5r was a match for the roland xv.

The EX5R is more in a class of its own and offers more synthesis types than PCM-based synthesis. Yamaha and Roland do not really match up with regards to their offerings. Yamaha had many more synths in the 1990s that were not purely romplers than Roland.

j^aws wrote on 2020-05-28, 12:43:

TG77 can do things the FS1R can't and vice-versa. Besides the 6 FM ops vs 8 FM ops, the TG77 can modulate AWM with its Advanced FM synthesis as well as import samples (RAM cards) and use AFM, whilst the FS1R can do Formant synthesis which sounds like freaky vocoder stuff.

The Japan-exclusive Yamaha B500 and B700 (upgraded B500) basically are 4-operator FM + AWM, except that instead of using the 8 types of waveform that the earlier 4-operator FM synths from the TX-81Z lineage had they can use any of their AWM waves in the FM section, AFAIK.

Yamaha OPL4 should've been more like the TG77.

Amusingly, the PLG-100SG plugin board uses a OPL-4 derivative as its CPU. It uses predefined vocal samples and the melody you create to sing in Japanese (barely comprehensible, alien-sounding Japanese). Formant-related parameters can be changed, but it lacks the thousands of parameters of the FS1R. See here http://javelinart.com/yamaha-plg100-sg.html

Reply 7 of 8, by SuperDeadite

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PLG100-SG is a bitch to work with, but if you get one cheap (I paid 4,000yen) it's a fun little toy to mess with.
Honestly worth it just to hear this madness playing in real time.
https://youtu.be/atZHFyR1LTI

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, Dreamblaster X2, McFly

Reply 8 of 8, by noshutdown

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SuperDeadite wrote on 2020-05-28, 13:42:

I always saw OPL4 as just the next budget pc sound card synth. Basically just an OPL3 with a simple Wave Table Rom bank, and a few megs of
memory for additional samples.

true, i have the same idea as yours.
there are two solutions of the opl4:
1. a discrete ymf278 opl4 processor chip in combination with a ymf801 2mb sample rom chip.
2. a much smaller standalone ymf704 chip which contains the opl4 processor and 1mb of sample rom.