VOGONS


First post, by dionb

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Sometimes simple things turn out not to be so simple...

I have a Dell/Intel SE440BX-3 with onboard Yamaha YMF724F-V. Apart from that the system at this point only contains a P2-450, 1x 128MB PC100 SDRAM and an STB Velocity 4400 Riva TNT AGP card.

Installed Win98SE without issues, no problems installing the Detonator drivers for the TNT either. Then the YMF...

It gets detected as Multimedia Audio Device and prompts for a driver. I tried with:

- "Yamaha YMF724 driver for DOS Win9x WinNT" i.e. 4.06.1031
- 4.07.1040 downloaded from Yamaha.com
- failing that, found a 4-floppy set on Dell's dupport page, which is also DS-XG, just a slightly older version than Yamaha's

In all cases behaviour is the same:
- if pointing the Found New Hardware wizard to the directory with the (unpacked) driver, it doesn't recognize anything in the directory as matching the hardware.
- running the installer seems to go OK, but after reboot Found New Hardware pops up again and Windows still can't find anything suitable.
- forcing it to install the .inf gives an error that the driver isn't for my hardware, ignoring that error and it starts to install subsequent components but hangs on the game port install, and hangs on subsequent reboots too, needing Safe Mode to remove the driver allowing normal boot again.

The onboard audio is enabled in BIOS (wouldn't have even detected it otherwise), and I've tried with PnP Aware OS both on and off.

Anyone know what I'm doing wrong here?

Reply 1 of 46, by darry

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dionb wrote on 2020-06-06, 14:47:
Sometimes simple things turn out not to be so simple... […]
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Sometimes simple things turn out not to be so simple...

I have a Dell/Intel SE440BX-3 with onboard Yamaha YMF724F-V. Apart from that the system at this point only contains a P2-450, 1x 128MB PC100 SDRAM and an STB Velocity 4400 Riva TNT AGP card.

Installed Win98SE without issues, no problems installing the Detonator drivers for the TNT either. Then the YMF...

It gets detected as Multimedia Audio Device and prompts for a driver. I tried with:

- "Yamaha YMF724 driver for DOS Win9x WinNT" i.e. 4.06.1031
- 4.07.1040 downloaded from Yamaha.com
- failing that, found a 4-floppy set on Dell's dupport page, which is also DS-XG, just a slightly older version than Yamaha's

In all cases behaviour is the same:
- if pointing the Found New Hardware wizard to the directory with the (unpacked) driver, it doesn't recognize anything in the directory as matching the hardware.
- running the installer seems to go OK, but after reboot Found New Hardware pops up again and Windows still can't find anything suitable.
- forcing it to install the .inf gives an error that the driver isn't for my hardware, ignoring that error and it starts to install subsequent components but hangs on the game port install, and hangs on subsequent reboots too, needing Safe Mode to remove the driver allowing normal boot again.

The onboard audio is enabled in BIOS (wouldn't have even detected it otherwise), and I've tried with PnP Aware OS both on and off.

Anyone know what I'm doing wrong here?

Please download and run pcilist.exe under Windows and post a screencap from sound card info . Link http://m.majorgeeks.com/files/details/pci_list.html
Maybe the YMF724 is using a custom device ID .

Reply 2 of 46, by dionb

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Vendor ID 1073h
Device ID 000Dh
Subsystem ID 5332h
Revision 03h
Class code 4.1
Subvendor ID 8086h

Somewhat amused to see that Intel has subvendor ID 8086 😜

In the report, the Yamaha audio device (000D1073h) is assigned IRQ10, which is unshared.

Looking in the .inf files:
ydsxg04D.inf: VEN_1073&DEV_000D&SUBSYS_000D1073 , VEN_1073&DEV_0004&SUBSYS_00041073 and VEN_1073&DEV_0005&SUBSYS_00051073
YDSXG0AC.INF: VEN_1073&DEV_000A&SUBSYS_000A1073 , VEN_1073&DEV_000C&SUBSYS_000C1073 and VEN_1073&DEV_0004&SUBSYS_00041073
YDSXG10.INF: VEN_1073&DEV_0010&SUBSYS_00061073 and VEN_1073&DEV_0010&SUBSYS_00101073

Not too deeply into these things, but the device ID seems to match with the first device in the first .inf file...

Reply 3 of 46, by darry

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dionb wrote on 2020-06-06, 16:10:
Vendor ID 1073h Device ID 000Dh Subsystem ID 5332h Revision 03h Class code 4.1 Subvendor ID 8086h […]
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Vendor ID 1073h
Device ID 000Dh
Subsystem ID 5332h
Revision 03h
Class code 4.1
Subvendor ID 8086h

Somewhat amused to see that Intel has subvendor ID 8086 😜

In the report, the Yamaha audio device (000D1073h) is assigned IRQ10, which is unshared.

Looking in the .inf files:
ydsxg04D.inf: VEN_1073&DEV_000D&SUBSYS_000D1073 , VEN_1073&DEV_0004&SUBSYS_00041073 and VEN_1073&DEV_0005&SUBSYS_00051073
YDSXG0AC.INF: VEN_1073&DEV_000A&SUBSYS_000A1073 , VEN_1073&DEV_000C&SUBSYS_000C1073 and VEN_1073&DEV_0004&SUBSYS_00041073
YDSXG10.INF: VEN_1073&DEV_0010&SUBSYS_00061073 and VEN_1073&DEV_0010&SUBSYS_00101073

Not too deeply into these things, but the device ID seems to match with the first device in the first .inf file...

The subsystem ID does not match for any of those .
Just to be sure, it is "Subsystem ID 5332h" and there are no typos ?

Reply 4 of 46, by dionb

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Yes, it's subsytem ID 5332h.

But... in the .inf files the subsys IDs are 8 digts long composed of device ID + vendor ID, so it doesn't look like any single field of four digits would match...

If I take the video adapter, which did happily install, it's:

Vendor ID: 10DEh
Device ID: 0020h
Subsystem ID: 273Eh

That 273E doens't occur anywhere in NVAGP.INF either

Reply 5 of 46, by zyga64

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I had SE440BX-2 in the past and remember that this board have YMF740 not YMF724. Maybe 3rd version also have this cut-down chip ?
Try it's dedicated drivers: ftp://ftp.spez.com.ua/driver/mb/intel/se440bx2/index.html

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4MB /TVGA9000C /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16MB /Trio64V+ /AZT2316
3) i430HX /P233MMX /64MB /VirgeDX+3DFX /YMF701
4) i440BX /P II 400 /256MB /FX5500/AWE64
5) i865G /E5800 /2GB /Ti4200 /YMF724

Reply 8 of 46, by darry

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This is a long shot, but I removed the subsys reference from the infs .

You might want give these drivers a shot .

Filename
Win9X_nosubsys.zip
File size
3.77 MiB
Downloads
4 downloads
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

To be safe, backup c:\windows\inf\ directory structure first

If they crash Windows , you will probably have to delete the inf folder and copy back your backup .

Reply 9 of 46, by dionb

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darry wrote on 2020-06-06, 17:30:
This is a long shot, but I removed the subsys reference from the infs . […]
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This is a long shot, but I removed the subsys reference from the infs .

You might want give these drivers a shot .
Win9X_nosubsys.zip
To be safe, backup c:\windows\inf\ directory structure first

If they crash Windows , you will probably have to delete the inf folder and copy back your backup .

Great!

Good news: Windows now accepts the drivers without error message.
Bad news: it hangs on Yamaha DS-XG Legacy Sound System, then after a reboot hangs on the Gameport

Hunch: this hanging might be an IRQ conflict for legacy sound, so reserved IRQ5 in BIOS. Nope, that wasn't it... now it reboots before login screen.

Btw, it definitely is a YMF724F-V, I'm looking at the chip now. That's my next approach (after recovery from the latest hang/reboot mess): I have a PCI card with the exact same chip. I'll see what happens if I disable the onboard chip and boot with the card in there.

Edit:
My YMF724F-V card works perfectly, gets auto-detected, installs without a hitch and gives that lovely Win98 start sound without even needing a reboot. Great, but whole idea of this board was I'd be able to get that without a separate card. In any case the drivers themselves are fine and it's not the OS install or compatibility with other components.

Last edited by dionb on 2020-06-06, 18:08. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 10 of 46, by darry

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dionb wrote on 2020-06-06, 17:55:
Great! […]
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darry wrote on 2020-06-06, 17:30:
This is a long shot, but I removed the subsys reference from the infs . […]
Show full quote

This is a long shot, but I removed the subsys reference from the infs .

You might want give these drivers a shot .
Win9X_nosubsys.zip
To be safe, backup c:\windows\inf\ directory structure first

If they crash Windows , you will probably have to delete the inf folder and copy back your backup .

Great!

Good news: Windows now accepts the drivers without error message.
Bad news: it hangs on Yamaha DS-XG Legacy Sound System, then after a reboot hangs on the Gameport

Hunch: this hanging might be an IRQ conflict for legacy sound, so reserved IRQ5 in BIOS. Nope, that wasn't it... now it reboots before login screen.

Btw, it definitely is a YMF724F-V, I'm looking at the chip now. That's my next approach (after recovery from the latest hang/reboot mess): I have a PCI card with the exact same chip. I'll see what happens if I disable the onboard chip and boot with the card in there.

Idea: What If you disable the Legacy Sound System Gameport from safe mode and boot back to normal mode ?

The YMF724 was meant for expansion cards, not onboard use . My guess is that there is something specific to the onboard implementation (likely for PC/PCI) that requires specific drivers to work .

Reply 11 of 46, by dionb

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darry wrote on 2020-06-06, 18:05:

[...]

Idea: What If you disable the Legacy Sound System Gameport from safe mode and boot back to normal mode ?

The YMF724 was meant for expansion cards, not onboard use . My guess is that there is something specific to the onboard implementation (likely for PC/PCI) that requires specific drivers to work .

Gave it a shot - disabled legacy audio and gameport - but nope, still hangs on boot.

The board is from an Dell Dimension XPS T450 system. I'm googling that, but not finding much - posts to the Dell support forum from people who hardly know what a driver is mainly.

Last edited by dionb on 2020-06-06, 18:44. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 12 of 46, by darry

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dionb wrote on 2020-06-06, 18:37:
darry wrote on 2020-06-06, 18:05:

[...]

Idea: What If you disable the Legacy Sound System Gameport from safe mode and boot back to normal mode ?

The YMF724 was meant for expansion cards, not onboard use . My guess is that there is something specific to the onboard implementation (likely for PC/PCI) that requires specific drivers to work .

Gave it a shot - disabled legacy audio and gameport - but nope, still hangs on boot.

I hope somebody has a copy of the specific drivers required, possibly chinny22 , as mentioned previously .

Reply 13 of 46, by dionb

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darry wrote on 2020-06-06, 18:44:

[...]

I hope somebody has a copy of the specific drivers required, possibly chinny22 , as mentioned previously .

Spotted his - 8 year old - topic now, and shot him off a PM. We can but hope.

Edit:
And yes, responded - he still has the system and the drivers and will upload them to vogonsdrivers once he's near both 😁

Reply 15 of 46, by dionb

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Perfect!

...except my boards still doesn't like it. In fact it's identical to the driver I pulled from the Yamaha site. Works with my PCI YMF724F-V, works with your onboard PCI YMF724F-V, but fails to convince my YMF724F-V to do anything 🙁

Given another seemingly identical board doesn't have the same problems, I strongly suspect there's something wrong with my board. Still, it gets weirder: after failing a again I tried to almost randomly force different bits of Yamaha drivers onto different Multimedia Audio Devices. At one point the system hung with a loud beeping over the speakers. Turns out that chip can still make noise if abused correctly.

Next step is look for a BIOS update. Not because I suspect it will help but because I'm running out of other options to try.

Reply 16 of 46, by darry

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dionb wrote on 2020-06-08, 18:03:
Perfect! […]
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Perfect!

...except my boards still doesn't like it. In fact it's identical to the driver I pulled from the Yamaha site. Works with my PCI YMF724F-V, works with your onboard PCI YMF724F-V, but fails to convince my YMF724F-V to do anything 🙁

Given another seemingly identical board doesn't have the same problems, I strongly suspect there's something wrong with my board. Still, it gets weirder: after failing a again I tried to almost randomly force different bits of Yamaha drivers onto different Multimedia Audio Devices. At one point the system hung with a loud beeping over the speakers. Turns out that chip can still make noise if abused correctly.

Next step is look for a BIOS update. Not because I suspect it will help but because I'm running out of other options to try.

I had a feeling it wouldn't work after looking at the infs . This thing is strange .

Reply 17 of 46, by AlphaPapa

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"Turns out that chip can still make noise if abused correctly."
Haha.
Commenting to keep an eye on this thread. Hope I don't get any sound driver issues with the
SE44BX-2 I just put together, Has YM740 appearantly.

Reply 18 of 46, by darry

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These should be the latest BIOS files for Dell XPS T__ series machines which used SE440BX-3 board, AFAIK .
http://downloads.dell.com/published/pages/dimension-t.html

EDIT: Corrected typo

Reply 19 of 46, by chinny22

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Yeh I was pretty sure it wasn't a generic driver last night so was surprised the file wasn't named R1234.exe or whatever in Dell's usual way when I grabbed it today, obviously my memory was wrong.
I doubt it's the cause but maybe your motherboard is a different revision? mine is Rev A00 AA 722394-111
BIOS version A11