VOGONS


First post, by Shreddoc

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k72SFBOZ_lw

I'm quite new here so I don't know if this video has been watched and discussed here before.

It seems quite relevant, as here an expert talks about a lot of "not quite right" audio chips that have been on the market in recent years, particularly so-called Yamaha chips. Those fake chips could potentially make their way into New Retro sound card build projects, of which there are many on Vogons.

So have we talked about this here before? Do the people who make new cards like the <whatever - no need to mention any specific ones> and so on, take extra precautions to ensure they are not falling foul of such practices by chip sellers?

Last edited by Shreddoc on 2020-09-20, 00:13. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 7, by cyclone3d

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The fake ymf7x4 chips (remarked CMI) don't work with the real Yamaha drivers anyway so it would be really easy to catch that.

So watching that video basically shows that these "new" chips from China are likely to be recycled and re-coated and re-etched chips.... So not really fake, just used.

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Reply 2 of 7, by Shreddoc

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-09-19, 22:56:

So watching that video basically shows that these "new" chips from China are likely to be recycled and re-coated and re-etched chips.... So not really fake, just used.

Personally I would want to know, if a card I was buying as "new" (and which included key chips which have a "new, untarnished" visual appearance) actually contained harshly-treated old silicon recycled using unknown methods.

I'm not saying that is happening in any particular project. But this video raises important questions about the providence of the New Old chip stock used in new projects.

Last edited by Shreddoc on 2020-09-19, 23:17. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 4 of 7, by yawetaG

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imi wrote on 2020-09-19, 23:17:

well if you're buying a yamaha chip from china with a new datecode... you do "know" 😁

Also, the CMI chips don't have the same shape/size as genuine Yamaha's, so the rebadged ones are easy to recognise.

Reply 5 of 7, by keropi

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this is what I think happens
- there are scams with fake chips , people have bought them - installed them - watched them catch fire ... these are scams so they can sell a 1cent chip for 2eur
- there are scams where you get a rebadged clone chip
- there are scams where you get rebadged chips that are actually slower version but indicate a faster one
- you get original chips but for some reason the Chinese think that if an EOL chip has a 2012 datecode is somehow more valuable
- you get original chips with scratches etc so they get the rebadge+datecode treatment
- you get pulls with cosmetic issues so .... rebadge 🤣

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Reply 6 of 7, by matze79

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OPL2 was made for a long time.

But for SAA1099, i already had few fakes.
SID also.
80287 was remarked Motorola Chip.

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Reply 7 of 7, by dionb

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The problem here isn't the chips themselves, it's trading practices.

Let's be honest - for the prices we pay for this sort of stuff, we can't expect anything other than recycled old parts. That's risky, but all part of the game when working with things that have been out of production for decades. I fully agree with the practical recommendation to buy a chip (or two) extra. Most work, most will probably still work years down the line, but there will be dodgy units. And I don't care so long as the seller is honest about it being untested too. If someone goes to the trouble of testing a part, the value increases sharply - but that also opens up a whole new world of fuss and bother with returns if it turns out not to work (or the buyer messed up his board and blames the chip...). In general I'd say the eBay sellers are pretty decent about it, I've even had a seller replacing a dead chip that wasn't even marked as tested (Commodore SID) and at worst they just don't care about where stuff comes from. It's further up the chain that the nasty stuff happens. The only time I'd contemplate giving the sellers a hard time is if they put up a pic of a legit chip and you get fakes, or if they advertise NOS and stuff is obviously used and faulty too. If the pic itself shows nice 2015-marked 1980's chip, you're just getting what you ordered. Caveat emptor.

So what do I do if I get one for one of my projects? Tbh, I try it out and if it works as desired, I'm happy enough, unless I paid over the odds for something very specific.