I don't think I've bothered with CTCM/CTCU for Creative cards under Windows 9x. Usually here's what I do:

- install the Windows drivers for SB16 using sbbasic package;
- "install" the DOS drivers for SB16 using the 95dosapps (both packages can be found on Creative website still). That package doesn't have an installer, you have to manually create a drivers folder for SB16 and put the files accordingly. So just read the included README file carefully;
- use BIOS to reserve the DMA/IRQ for the Sound Blaster;
- use Device Manager in Windows to make Sound Blaster use those resources;
- reboot in DOS (I tend to set bootgui to 0 in msdos.sys as opposed to using "Reboot in DOS mode");
- run diagnose.exe from SB16's DOS drivers folder. It will read the DMA/IRQ settings for SB16 and write the necessary SET BLASTER line in autoexec.bat.

I think all of this should also work if you're using a "Reboot in DOS mode" option, since Windows will execute autoexec.bat at startup every time.

There is a patched version of CTCM/CTCU that can be run under Windows 9x, but honestly I don't remember what's the point of that.

With Yamaha cards it's a bit trickier. Official DOS drivers are installed only with the Windows 9x drivers package, you can't get them separately. I think I remember the DOS part not being particularly friendly, which is why a lot of people use custom drivers made by Mediatrix that are compatible with other Yamaha cards. You might get an easier setup with Unisound, but I've never used that, so can't really give an advice here.

If I were you, I would just use CT2740 with SC-55 and not install Yamaha/AWE64. It looks like CT2740 uses a CT1747 chip, so it's almost bug-free. If CT2740 is noisy, try using the mixer to disable all the sound inputs you don't need (like mic, CD in, etc), it tends to help the sound quality. If it doesn't, stick to Yamaha, there are about a dozen or so games that actually use 16-bit sound mode with Sound Blasters, so you're not missing much.

If you do opt for a dual ISA card setup, there's JYEN jumper on your CT2740 that will disable the Gameport.

As to Aureal Vortex, I think it's quite simple — just don't enable DOS compatibility. Get a short 3.5mm cable, use it to connect Vortex line out port with SB16 line in (because Vortex will not be able to pass through audio under DOS without drivers). Check mixer setting so line in audio is not muted on SB16.

jheronimus wrote on 2021-03-02, 09:38:

There is a patched version of CTCM/CTCU that can be run under Windows 9x, but honestly I don't remember what's the point of that.

The point is that without this patch, CTCM/CTCU refuse to run even under pure DOS 7.x.

jheronimus wrote on 2021-03-02, 09:38:

I don't think I've bothered with CTCM/CTCU for Creative cards under Windows 9x. Usually here's what I do:

I'm sorry for confusing you, and am more than glad to have the information, but for these cards, I will be using them in DOS 6.22. I've had too many headaches with DOS mode in Win 9x to want to be using it for anything serious. I was also wanting to use the second card as a way to circumvent the issues in TIE Fighter and Duke Nukem 3D that happen when both GM and digital sound effects are playing. The former is more important, since I can just attach my SC-55 to a modern machine and use a source port for the latter if I really want to play it.

Also, the CT2740 seems to not be too noisy, at least when the amplifier is disabled, even when the speakers are turned up farther out of necessity.

Running Unisound at DOS prompt with the switch /CL will quickly show you a list of the system's supported cards.

*If* Unisound works with all your cards (you say one is non-PnP, so it may not) then it is probably the simplest solution. It is what I use for my 2-ISA-soundcard DOS machine, specifically to use one soundcard for sound+MIDI port and the other as dedicated joystick port. All done so I could make Tie Fighter work exactly how I want it with my hardware, I might add.

A few straightforward lines in Autoexec.bat is all that's involved.

I have an AWE32 + Gravis Interwae PnP working just fine together.

I used to use CTCM and IWInit but switched over to Unisound.

I would say, stick your AWE64 in first, use ctcm/ctcu to setup its pnp config to correct addresses and such, disable what you dont want etc to free up IRQ's,
then add the second card.

but the AWE64 has a joystick port to use for GM so.. why a second card?

BloodyCactus wrote on 2021-03-03, 00:40:

but the AWE64 has a joystick port to use for GM so.. why a second card?

Possible reason 1:
"I was also wanting to use the second card as a way to circumvent the issues in TIE Fighter and Duke Nukem 3D that happen when both GM and digital sound effects are playing."

Possible reason 2:
Depending on your system, splitter type, and joystick type, some people can have problems using MIDI and certain joysticks simultaneously through the same card. I don't know why.
DOS Gameport Woe

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 00:19:

Running Unisound at DOS prompt with the switch /CL will quickly show you a list of the system's supported cards.

*If* Unisound works with all your cards (you say one is non-PnP, so it may not) then it is probably the simplest solution. It is what I use for my 2-ISA-soundcard DOS machine, specifically to use one soundcard for sound+MIDI port and the other as dedicated joystick port. All done so I could make Tie Fighter work exactly how I want it with my hardware, I might add.

A few straightforward lines in Autoexec.bat is all that's involved.

Okay, so I can get the Yamaha and AWE to both be detected via unisound, but from there I am a bit confused as to how to guarantee both cards are on separate IRQs and similar.

BetaC wrote on 2021-03-03, 04:56:

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 00:19:

Running Unisound at DOS prompt with the switch /CL will quickly show you a list of the system's supported cards.

*If* Unisound works with all your cards (you say one is non-PnP, so it may not) then it is probably the simplest solution. It is what I use for my 2-ISA-soundcard DOS machine, specifically to use one soundcard for sound+MIDI port and the other as dedicated joystick port. All done so I could make Tie Fighter work exactly how I want it with my hardware, I might add.

A few straightforward lines in Autoexec.bat is all that's involved.

Okay, so I can get the Yamaha and AWE to both be detected via unisound, but from there I am a bit confused as to how to guarantee both cards are on separate IRQs and similar.

Quick question before I launch into any longer explanations: Are you familiar with the "SET BLASTER" variable in Autoexec.bat, at all?

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 07:37:

Quick question before I launch into any longer explanations: Are you familiar with the "SET BLASTER" variable in Autoexec.bat, at all?

I am indeed familiar with it, at least to the extent of what is usually put in to it.

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 07:37:

[...]
Quick question before I launch into any longer explanations: Are you familiar with the "SET BLASTER" variable in Autoexec.bat, at all?

SET BLASTER doesn't set anything in the hardware, it's just sets the DOS environment variable BLASTER so software reading that variable know where to find the card. You first need to - by different means - actully set the card to whatever values you want to put in BLASTER.

OP, why the CT2740 if you already have the CT4500? The only advantage of the CT2740 over the CT4500 is real OPL3, but the Yamaha card already offers that, so you just seem to be duplicating functionalities here... with two cards it should be a bit easier to get everything working together.

I'd suggest using CTCM to set the CT4500 and Unisound for the YMF719

As the YMF719 does SBPro2 (and the CT4500 doesn't fully), I'd set that on the original/legacy settings A220 I5 D1 P330 T4, then set the CT4500 to A240 I3 (or 7) D3 H5 P300 E620 T6

dionb wrote on 2021-03-03, 09:18:

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 07:37:

[...]
Quick question before I launch into any longer explanations: Are you familiar with the "SET BLASTER" variable in Autoexec.bat, at all?

SET BLASTER doesn't set anything in the hardware, it's just sets the DOS environment variable BLASTER so software reading that variable know where to find the card. You first need to - by different means - actully set the card to whatever values you want to put in BLASTER.

I think Shreddoc mentioned that because Unisound uses the BLASTER settings to configure the sound card.

dionb wrote on 2021-03-03, 09:18:

OP, why the CT2740 if you already have the CT4500?

Because it's just sitting there, really. I brought it up just in case having two cards that might use the same kind of driver would make things easier, which does not seem to be the case. It's probably going to be stuck in that 486 machine that I will, eventually, get around to making. Same goes for the DRAM S3 Trio 64 PCI.

dionb wrote on 2021-03-03, 09:18:

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 07:37:

[...]
Quick question before I launch into any longer explanations: Are you familiar with the "SET BLASTER" variable in Autoexec.bat, at all?

SET BLASTER doesn't set anything in the hardware...

Oetker wrote on 2021-03-03, 09:28:

I think Shreddoc mentioned that because Unisound uses the BLASTER settings to configure the sound card.

Oetker has the right of it.

Unisound is a DOS sound card driver written by a Vogons member Jazefox. It can be used as a simple one-size-fits-allmany way to get ISA PnP sound cards working.

The Unisound driver offers the convenient option of using the BLASTER variable to configure each card (of a multi-card setup) in turn, using a 2-line AUTOEXEC.BAT sequence of:

SET BLASTER=<define the card's settings here, including extra settings described in Unisound's README>
UNISOUND /Cx

where x is the Card's Number listed under UNISOUND /CL

===

For example:

SET BLASTER=A240 I7 D0 H0 M300 F398 J201 T4
UNISOUND /C2
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 M330 F388 J0 T2
UNISOUND /C1

Sets up card 2 (from the UNISOUND /CL list) first. With "out of the way" settings, since I don't intend to use it for sound, but it's not a card that allows disabling much. Gives me it's joystick port at standard 201h. Card 1 is set up with lines 3&4. My main used-for-sound-and-MIDI output card. It's joystick port is simply disabled with the J0 setting, but MIDI will still pass through it regardless via the M330 setting.

Card 1 (the card I use for sound) pair of lines is last in the sequence, as I want it to be the defining BLASTER variable for games to detect.

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 10:14:

Oetker has the right of it. […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2021-03-03, 09:18:

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 07:37:

[...]
Quick question before I launch into any longer explanations: Are you familiar with the "SET BLASTER" variable in Autoexec.bat, at all?

SET BLASTER doesn't set anything in the hardware...

Oetker wrote on 2021-03-03, 09:28:

I think Shreddoc mentioned that because Unisound uses the BLASTER settings to configure the sound card.

Oetker has the right of it.

Unisound is a DOS sound card driver written by a Vogons member Jazefox. It can be used as a simple one-size-fits-allmany way to get ISA PnP sound cards working.

OK, then would have been helpful to at least mention you were raising SET BLASTER in context of Unisound. There are too many people who think that SET BLASTER itself actually configures stuff and outside of Unisound it certainly doesn't.

dionb wrote on 2021-03-03, 12:19:

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 10:14:

Oetker has the right of it. […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2021-03-03, 09:18:

SET BLASTER doesn't set anything in the hardware...

Oetker wrote on 2021-03-03, 09:28:

I think Shreddoc mentioned that because Unisound uses the BLASTER settings to configure the sound card.

Oetker has the right of it.

Unisound is a DOS sound card driver written by a Vogons member Jazefox. It can be used as a simple one-size-fits-allmany way to get ISA PnP sound cards working.

OK, then would have been helpful to at least mention you were raising SET BLASTER in context of Unisound.

That was done. You may have missed it. It would be helpful for you to fully read threads before levelling criticisms toward people to whom they are not relevant.

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 12:56:

dionb wrote on 2021-03-03, 12:19:

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 10:14:

Oetker has the right of it.

Unisound is a DOS sound card driver written by a Vogons member Jazefox. It can be used as a simple one-size-fits-allmany way to get ISA PnP sound cards working.

OK, then would have been helpful to at least mention you were raising SET BLASTER in context of Unisound.

That was done. You may have missed it. It would be helpful for you to fully read threads before levelling criticisms toward people to whom they are not relevant.

Thread.jpg

Look, I don't want to get into a drawn-out discussion on semantics, but if you'd said "Are you familiar with the "SET BLASTER" variable in Autoexec.bat in combination with Unisound, at all?" everything would have been clear. Please take that feedback for next time to avoid future misunderstandings.

dionb wrote on 2021-03-03, 13:52:

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 12:56:

dionb wrote on 2021-03-03, 12:19:

OK, then would have been helpful to at least mention you were raising SET BLASTER in context of Unisound.

That was done. You may have missed it. It would be helpful for you to fully read threads before levelling criticisms toward people to whom they are not relevant.

Thread.jpg

Look, I don't want to get into a drawn-out discussion on semantics, but if you'd said "Are you familiar with the "SET BLASTER" variable in Autoexec.bat in combination with Unisound, at all?" everything would have been clear. Please take that feedback for next time to avoid future misunderstandings.

Thanks for your humble opinion. I'm satisfied that appropriate and sufficient context was provided within the thread, and that your failure to understand is an abberation. Nonetheless if I'm ever specifically talking to you in particular in the future, I'll be sure to spell everything out super clearly. Thanks again. If we could please get back to the topic at hand...

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 21:16:

Thanks for your humble opinion. I'm satisfied that appropriate and sufficient context was provided within the thread, and that your failure to understand is an abberation. Nonetheless if I'm ever specifically talking to you in particular in the future, I'll be sure to spell everything out super clearly. Thanks again. If we could please get back to the topic at hand...

In his defense, I started off the thread with confusion, so it's just a chain of spasms at this point. I will be trying to do the SET BLASTER config later when I have the time to muck around with edit. does /C1 actually work, though? looking at the documentation for unisound, it doesn't mention it.

BetaC wrote on 2021-03-03, 21:37:

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-03-03, 21:16:

Thanks for your humble opinion. I'm satisfied that appropriate and sufficient context was provided within the thread, and that your failure to understand is an abberation. Nonetheless if I'm ever specifically talking to you in particular in the future, I'll be sure to spell everything out super clearly. Thanks again. If we could please get back to the topic at hand...

I will be trying to do the SET BLASTER config later when I have the time to muck around with edit. does /C1 actually work, though? looking at the documentation for unisound, it doesn't mention it.

Here are the command-line options, pulled from UNISOUND.TXT. The relevant bit is bolded.

--

Usage: UNISOUND [options]

Options:
/Cn Select PnP card number 'n' to initialize/read (n = 2 to 5)
/CS Initialize non-PnP Creative card (SB16 & AWE32)
/CL List all PnP cards present in the system
/R Read PnP card current settings only (can be used with /Cn)
/D Disable PnP sound card (can be used with /Cn)
/Vnn Set Master Volume level to 'nn' % (00-99)
/VWnn Set Wave Volume level to 'nn' % (00-99)
/VFnn Set FM/Synth/WT Volume level to 'nn' % (00-99)
/VLnn Set Line-in Volume level to 'nn' % (00-99)
/VCnn Set CD Volume level to 'nn' (00-99)
/VMnn Set Mic Volume level to 'nn' (00-99)
/VPnn Set PC Speaker-in Volume level to 'nn' (00-99) (Creative)
/VTnn Set Treble level to 'nn' (00-99) (Compat. Creative cards)
/VTnn Set Bass level to 'nn' (00-99) (Compat. Creative cards)
/Xxxx eXtened cards settings (see section 5 for details)
/H /? Help screen

--