If you want cheap the ESS AudioDrive is recommended, otherwise the ymf719 is excellent (but better in windows). There are lots out there, aztech sound galaxies are good, as are some sb16s. However you need to ask what is important? Bug free midi, genuine opl3, 16bit sound, driver quality, etc. Personally I like to remove the midi aspect from the equation by getting a musicquest or hardMPU card, then going with something with genuine opl, however that is an expensive route. You do have 2 ISA slots though so that would be a good use for them.

The Yamaha YMF718/719 is great, but not perfect. So it depends greatly on which games you want to play.
For example, one of my favorite games is Prehistorik, and unfortunately the YMF718/719 has issues with it (stuttering whenever digital sounds are played back). Of course, it does work in pure Adlib mode, but... it's not the same.
On the other hand, the YMF718/719 is absolutely great for many other games (like Jazz Jackrabbit - it sounds A LOT better than any SB16 I've tried with this game).
So, as you've said, there is no "ultimate" sound card when it comes to DOS gaming. It's true that some are (much) better than others, but no matter the sound card, there will always be that one pesky game that just refuses to work 😀

kolderman wrote on 2021-04-03, 09:34:

If you want cheap the ESS AudioDrive is recommended, otherwise the ymf719 is excellent (but better in windows). There are lots out there, aztech sound galaxies are good, as are some sb16s. However you need to ask what is important? Bug free midi, genuine opl3, 16bit sound, driver quality, etc. Personally I like to remove the midi aspect from the equation by getting a musicquest or hardMPU card, then going with something with genuine opl, however that is an expensive route. You do have 2 ISA slots though so that would be a good use for them.

Budget isn't too much of a concern, as I already spent a bunch to build this system. I just dont want to overlook a good budget option like the ESS Audiodrive you mention just cuz its cheap. Im already planning on using the Sound Blaster Audiogy 2 ZS as my windows card. Was hoping to find a single ISA card to fit most my DOS needs. The Yamaha YMF 719 just looked like it will be good for the most parts (until i find the game that doesnt work with it). I do like the idea of having something like the hardMPU handling all my midi modules then just having a single card that handles everything else for DOS.

So with all that said, most important features would be compatibility. I dont want to be dealing with too many bugs and would like this to work on a wide range of games from late 80s to most 90s games. 16 bit sound, OPL3 and FM are also up high but im willing to sacrifice some quality. Don't really need a "best of". Working with midi modules would be great but i'm willing to get a dedicated card for just midi if it means finding something else that kicks ass but doesnt have midi.

> So with all that said, most important features would be compatibility.

With what though? The lowest common denominator is 8 bit sound and opl music...an audiodrive fits the bill there. If you want 16 bit sound, wss, intelligent midi support, awe support...you may need to look further.

I think the general concensus here is just get an audiodrive until you know you need more....it won't cost you an arm or a leg.

bloodem wrote on 2021-04-03, 10:08:

The Yamaha YMF718/719 is great, but not perfect. So it depends greatly on which games you want to play. For example, one of my f […]
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The Yamaha YMF718/719 is great, but not perfect. So it depends greatly on which games you want to play.
For example, one of my favorite games is Prehistorik, and unfortunately the YMF718/719 has issues with it (stuttering whenever digital sounds are played back). Of course, it does work in pure Adlib mode, but... it's not the same.
On the other hand, the YMF718/719 is absolutely great for many other games (like Jazz Jackrabbit - it sounds A LOT better than any SB16 I've tried with this game).
So, as you've said, there is no "ultimate" sound card when it comes to DOS gaming. It's true that some are (much) better than others, but no matter the sound card, there will always be that one pesky game that just refuses to work 😀

I'm planning on playing a wide range of games as this PC allows me to have, which means games starting from the late 80s and all the way to the mid 90s. Some of the earlier games I would like to play are RPG like Wasteland and Pool of Radiance. Also want to play many of the more popular FPS that came out in the 90s like Doom and Duke 3d. Newer windows games i'll leave to my SB Audiogy 2zs to handle.

kolderman wrote on 2021-04-03, 22:40:

> So with all that said, most important features would be compatibility.

With what though? The lowest common denominator is 8 bit sound and opl music...an audiodrive fits the bill there. If you want 16 bit sound, wss, intelligent midi support, awe support...you may need to look further.

I think the general concensus here is just get an audiodrive until you know you need more....it won't cost you an arm or a leg.

When I say compatibility, I just mean like they wont crash the games. But that's the thing, I'm not sure what "features" I even want. OPL3, 16 bit sound, and intelligent midi support seem like the best bet to cover most my bases and get a good experience sound wise. I have been reading around a bit but the whole sound card discussion is turning out to be even more extensive than the rest of the system 🤣. I wasn't even thinking about getting a 2nd ISA card until you mentioned having a separate card to handle midi modules.

The ESS should fit the bill then? Was looking at the SB table with the list of all features, it was very difficult to pick one from that table but something like the AWE32 CT3900 looks to be something that could fill many of my needs.

Are there any specific games that you're wanting to play with this system? If so, just list them and it can help us figure out if you'll have any issues with specific cards, and will definitely help us figure out how much you need something like True OPL, or something like a Wave Blaster header, etc.

Bendejo wrote on 2021-04-03, 23:43:

kolderman wrote on 2021-04-03, 22:40:

> So with all that said, most important features would be compatibility.

With what though? The lowest common denominator is 8 bit sound and opl music...an audiodrive fits the bill there. If you want 16 bit sound, wss, intelligent midi support, awe support...you may need to look further.

I think the general concensus here is just get an audiodrive until you know you need more....it won't cost you an arm or a leg.

When I say compatibility, I just mean like they wont crash the games. But that's the thing, I'm not sure what "features" I even want. OPL3, 16 bit sound, and intelligent midi support seem like the best bet to cover most my bases and get a good experience sound wise. I have been reading around a bit but the whole sound card discussion is turning out to be even more extensive than the rest of the system 🤣. I wasn't even thinking about getting a 2nd ISA card until you mentioned having a separate card to handle midi modules.

The ESS should fit the bill then? Was looking at the SB table with the list of all features, it was very difficult to pick one from that table but something like the AWE32 CT3900 looks to be something that could fill many of my needs.

The CT3900 is a very nice card, but fairly rare and expensive. And you will still probably want another card for midi.

As I said the audiodrive is a good start and cheap, and you can use that experience to determine what else you want.

BetaC wrote on 2021-04-04, 00:25:

Are there any specific games that you're wanting to play with this system? If so, just list them and it can help us figure out if you'll have any issues with specific cards, and will definitely help us figure out how much you need something like True OPL, or something like a Wave Blaster header, etc.

Specific DOS games I know I will play are Doom, Doom II, Duke 3d, Quake, System Shock, X-com UFO Defense, Warcraft, Command and Conquer 1 & 2, Command and Conquer Red Alert, Fallout.

Games i'm interested in playing? too many to list but a few that will be up on the list include Wasteland, Pool of Radiance, Wizardry 7, and many of the other FPS and RPG games that I want to try out.

kolderman wrote on 2021-04-04, 00:35:

Bendejo wrote on 2021-04-03, 23:43:

kolderman wrote on 2021-04-03, 22:40:

> So with all that said, most important features would be compatibility.

With what though? The lowest common denominator is 8 bit sound and opl music...an audiodrive fits the bill there. If you want 16 bit sound, wss, intelligent midi support, awe support...you may need to look further.

I think the general concensus here is just get an audiodrive until you know you need more....it won't cost you an arm or a leg.

When I say compatibility, I just mean like they wont crash the games. But that's the thing, I'm not sure what "features" I even want. OPL3, 16 bit sound, and intelligent midi support seem like the best bet to cover most my bases and get a good experience sound wise. I have been reading around a bit but the whole sound card discussion is turning out to be even more extensive than the rest of the system 🤣. I wasn't even thinking about getting a 2nd ISA card until you mentioned having a separate card to handle midi modules.

The ESS should fit the bill then? Was looking at the SB table with the list of all features, it was very difficult to pick one from that table but something like the AWE32 CT3900 looks to be something that could fill many of my needs.

The CT3900 is a very nice card, but fairly rare and expensive. And you will still probably want another card for midi.

As I said the audiodrive is a good start and cheap, and you can use that experience to determine what else you want.

I guess i'll pass on that SB AWE32 CT3900. But many of the SB16 solutions like the CT2700 also were also looking like good options i I wanted to go the 2nd ISA card solution for midi modules. Whats your opinion on those?

Honestly I'll probably get the audiodrive just to get me started, seems really solid for what it does at a price that will be one of the cheaper components I buy for this build.

Bendejo wrote on 2021-04-04, 03:26:

kolderman wrote on 2021-04-04, 00:35:

Bendejo wrote on 2021-04-03, 23:43:

When I say compatibility, I just mean like they wont crash the games. But that's the thing, I'm not sure what "features" I even want. OPL3, 16 bit sound, and intelligent midi support seem like the best bet to cover most my bases and get a good experience sound wise. I have been reading around a bit but the whole sound card discussion is turning out to be even more extensive than the rest of the system 🤣. I wasn't even thinking about getting a 2nd ISA card until you mentioned having a separate card to handle midi modules.

The ESS should fit the bill then? Was looking at the SB table with the list of all features, it was very difficult to pick one from that table but something like the AWE32 CT3900 looks to be something that could fill many of my needs.

The CT3900 is a very nice card, but fairly rare and expensive. And you will still probably want another card for midi.

As I said the audiodrive is a good start and cheap, and you can use that experience to determine what else you want.

I guess i'll pass on that SB AWE32 CT3900. But many of the SB16 solutions like the CT2700 also were also looking like good options i I wanted to go the 2nd ISA card solution for midi modules. Whats your opinion on those?

Honestly I'll probably get the audiodrive just to get me started, seems really solid for what it does at a price that will be one of the cheaper components I buy for this build.

Sb16s are not that great. There are a couple of good models, but they are all bugged to some extent. Also consider certain crystal cards as good cheap similar to audiodrive. Phils website has information on which one to get. There are some really nice aztechs that look good on paper but are a bit more expensive and have sucky drivers.

Bendejo wrote on 2021-04-04, 03:03:

Specific DOS games I know I will play are Doom, Doom II, Duke 3d, Quake, System Shock, X-com UFO Defense, Warcraft, Command and Conquer 1 & 2, Command and Conquer Red Alert, Fallout.

Don't play Fallout under DOS, it has terrible sound drivers there. Install it under Win9x instead. Also, it's worth mentioning that some late-era DOS games do support 16-bit sound. The Yamaha 719 can deliver that through its WSS mode. An AudioDrive has a proprietary 16-bit mode as well, but it's less commonly supported than WSS.

Personally, I like to have two cards in my builds. One with proper SBPro compatibility, genuine OPL3 and bugfree MPU-401 that I use for earlier DOS games. And a second one with SB16 support which "just works" with later titles. As long as you set them up to use different resources, there should be no issues.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-04-04, 04:46:

Bendejo wrote on 2021-04-04, 03:03:

Specific DOS games I know I will play are Doom, Doom II, Duke 3d, Quake, System Shock, X-com UFO Defense, Warcraft, Command and Conquer 1 & 2, Command and Conquer Red Alert, Fallout.

Don't play Fallout under DOS, it has terrible sound drivers there. Install it under Win9x instead. Also, it's worth mentioning that some late-era DOS games do support 16-bit sound. The Yamaha 719 can deliver that through its WSS mode. An AudioDrive has a proprietary 16-bit mode as well, but it's less commonly supported than WSS.

Personally, I like to have two cards in my builds. One with proper SBPro compatibility, genuine OPL3 and bugfree MPU-401 that I use for earlier DOS games. And a second one with SB16 support which "just works" with later titles. As long as you set them up to use different resources, there should be no issues.

I got both the Yamaha and Audiodrive, the yamaha had a discount that made it $30 and the Audiodrive was about the so I just got both to try out which one i like better.

Does Fallout sound the same in DOS as it does in Windows? I really liked the music in that game.

Bendejo wrote on 2021-04-05, 04:44:

Does Fallout sound the same in DOS as it does in Windows? I really liked the music in that game.

If anything, it sounds better in Windows because you automatically get 16-bit sound there, as long as your card is capable of it. No need for SB16 compatibility and such.

The music is the same in both versions.