kixs wrote on 2021-08-25, 17:37:

How about another time. Bought a motherboard with "Used" condition and description: "Untested".

I received and tested the board. It didn't work. Seller didn't want to hear anything about refund/return. I opened the dispute and was denied by eBay as it was untested. I went completely bonkers about this!

Was this in recent years? Because if yes, that would indeed be very strange and against all current eBay rules, which clearly state: "Used: The item was previously used. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but it is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or store return that was used. See the seller's listing for full details and a description of any imperfections."
"untested" and "no refunds" has not existed on eBay for at least 5 years, if not more:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Selling … s/td-p/25368903
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-to- … s/td-p/29335649

I'm actually curious now to hear if anyone else has had your experience. 😀

This was about 2-3 years ago. Untested was in the description and in the main body text. Condition was "used" which means it should be in a working condition.

I was pretty shocked with eBay's decision and didn't buy anything for at least few months...

Now I don't even bother as I usually test way beyond the time frame and usually around 95% of items will work. Exception being if it's something really exciting or very expensive 🤣

I look for this discrepancy in any auction I am considering. If the item is categorized as used but is listed as-is or something to that effect in the description, I won't bid. It indicates that the seller doesn't know the rules or doesn't care, someone I don't want to deal with. One of the reasons I will pay ebay prices for things is that there is an assurance the item is in working condition or an option to return. The biggest issue I have had has been minor issues like non-working fan on a gpu, in my experience sellers will typically make an adjustment which I am fine with. I got an SB Audigy card about a year ago that didn't work, not identified at all by the system. I got a full refund for that, the seller had a large number of them, it happens.

bloodem wrote on 2021-08-25, 18:33:

Was this in recent years? Because if yes, that would indeed be very strange and against all current eBay rules, which clearly st […]
Show full quote

Was this in recent years? Because if yes, that would indeed be very strange and against all current eBay rules, which clearly state: "Used: The item was previously used. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but it is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or store return that was used. See the seller's listing for full details and a description of any imperfections."
"untested" and "no refunds" has not existed on eBay for at least 5 years, if not more:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Selling … s/td-p/25368903
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-to- … s/td-p/29335649

I'm actually curious now to hear if anyone else has had your experience. 😀

eBay definitely does NOT refund if the seller clearly states it's sold for parts and likely not working. I watch plenty of channels where they repair broken stuff bought off eBay and all these channels repeat that even if the item they sold clearly was a lost cause (seller tried to repair it himself and royally screwed up for example even if the auction doesn't mention anything like that) they can't get a refund. As long as the seller does not give a guarantee it works, they have their ass covered.

As a result, a lot of sellers will hide behind the "not tested but comes from working machine" line meaning you buy it with a risk that it may not work, knowing it doesn't.

Even two days ago I bought a Gameboy cartridge. The seller mentioned "slight damage, not tested - no refund if not working" but since Gameboy cartridges are hard to destroy I still ordered it, thinking the contacts just needed a bit of cleaning. I received it and the thing was absolutely filthy and even after a thorough cleaning, inserting the cartridge a dozen times did not make it work nor after a thorough cleaning of the contacts with a cotton swab with IPA. It was very clear the seller knew it was not working since they sold it at less than half the going price. I opened up the cartridge and used sandpaper on the copper contacts and that finally made the game work so I got lucky there - the contacts must have been very heavily corroded.

red_avatar wrote on 2021-08-27, 12:30:

eBay definitely does NOT refund if the seller clearly states it's sold for parts and likely not working. I watch plenty of channels where they repair broken stuff bought off eBay and all these channels repeat that even if the item they sold clearly was a lost cause (seller tried to repair it himself and royally screwed up for example even if the auction doesn't mention anything like that) they can't get a refund. As long as the seller does not give a guarantee it works, they have their ass covered.

As a result, a lot of sellers will hide behind the "not tested but comes from working machine" line meaning you buy it with a risk that it may not work, knowing it doesn't.

Even two days ago I bought a Gameboy cartridge. The seller mentioned "slight damage, not tested - no refund if not working" but since Gameboy cartridges are hard to destroy I still ordered it, thinking the contacts just needed a bit of cleaning. I received it and the thing was absolutely filthy and even after a thorough cleaning, inserting the cartridge a dozen times did not make it work nor after a thorough cleaning of the contacts with a cotton swab with IPA. It was very clear the seller knew it was not working since they sold it at less than half the going price. I opened up the cartridge and used sandpaper on the copper contacts and that finally made the game work so I got lucky there - the contacts must have been very heavily corroded.

I wasn't talking about items sold "for parts or not working". 😀
Again, if the item is being sold as "Used" (which means that it should be a perfectly working item), then it really doesn't matter what the seller writes in the description (mentioning in the description that the item is "untested" and that "returns are not accepted" will not transfer the responsibility to the buyer (which is what most sellers think).
"Untested" --> it just means that the seller acknowledges that he doesn't have time to test the item and is willing to risk having the item tested by the buyer.
"Returns are not accepted" --> this simply refers to buyer's remorse, and does NOT count for faulty items. If the item is defective, the seller will have to take the item back and he actually needs to pay for the return shipping.

I actually had this situation with a Voodoo 5 5500. The seller sold it as "used", however he denied all responsibility in the description:

Technical condition is unknown. Visual condition as depicted above. Due to the age I can't provide any function guarantee. As german laws apply here: no guarantee, no warranty, no refunds.

I purchased the card (and it wasn't exactly cheap), and it turned out to be completely dead. I naturally contacted the seller, explained the situation and his exact response was:

Hi,
I'm very sorry to hear about this (contrary to your assumption I didn't know of any defect) but I made very clear that this item is untested and the technical condition is therefore unknown (as stated in the auction description). I even explained in a very detailled manner in our previous communication, that I'm specifically excluding any rights of refunds, or return of those items whose condition is unknown (even to me).

You bought it completely aware of this uncertainty. I'm sorry but I can't provide you any positive solution here. Feel free to contact eBay though.

Suffice to say that I opened a SNAD case, and eBay even appologised to me for his behavior:

Hello, […]
Show full quote

Hello,

Good day to you! My name is JUstine from eBay team. Your concern about the 3dfx Voodoo5 5500 AGP that was endorsed to me because the buyer never provided return label. I am sad to hear about this, no worries I got you. I will resolve this problem because that is my passion.

After carefully reviewing the case I noticed that up until now the seller did not provide a return label. Good news! I decided to processed your full refund of 352,00 € I also request to prioritize your refund to be availble to your account within 24 to 48 hours. One more thing, make sure to check your email because I did send a separate email that contain the sweet message about closing the claim and processing your refund. You don't need to return the item anymore also you don't have to do anything else.

I hope that atleast this message made your day a little better. If you need assistance in the future don't hesitate to reach out. Thank you and please don't forget to smile for the rest of your day!

Sincerely,

Justine R.
eBay Customer Support

Pretty weird response from the eBay customer support (it looks as if it was written by a 12 year old), but... yeah. 😁 And that's right, I could have kept the card for free if I wanted to. 😀 (and the card was in very good esthetic condition, with a full box in a pristine state!).
I eventually returned the card to the seller, even though he had been a complete and utter jerk (of course, he did pay for the return shipping, though).

This has always been my experience with eBay. As long as you explain the situation very well in the SNAD case (thus proving that you are not a scammer), you should always win the case against sellers that don't take responsibility for what they are selling.

My understanding of the ebay policy is that the verbiage that the seller types is completely irrelevant. All that matters is whether they select 'used' or 'for parts / not working'

You can also put old computer parts under the "vintage" category. That category doesn't have a condition selection and as far as I understand, there are no returns just as if the condition was listed as parts / repair.

By the way, a bit of a hint here is to investigate what the seller usually sells, lots of vintage hardware some tested and guaranteed working and then there's an "untested" part, that's highly suspect. Lots of modern hardware and an untested older part, that's a 50:50 shot, barely any computer stuff at all and lots of general merch, then possibly really doesn't have a clue, but bear in mind that they don't have a clue, and don't rely on anything you can't determine from the picture.

bloodem wrote on 2021-08-27, 13:17:

Pretty weird response from the eBay customer support (it looks as if it was written by a 12 year old), but... yeah. :-D And that […]
Show full quote

Hello, […]
Show full quote

Hello,

Good day to you! My name is JUstine from eBay team. Your concern about the 3dfx Voodoo5 5500 AGP that was endorsed to me because the buyer never provided return label. I am sad to hear about this, no worries I got you. I will resolve this problem because that is my passion.

After carefully reviewing the case I noticed that up until now the seller did not provide a return label. Good news! I decided to processed your full refund of 352,00 € I also request to prioritize your refund to be availble to your account within 24 to 48 hours. One more thing, make sure to check your email because I did send a separate email that contain the sweet message about closing the claim and processing your refund. You don't need to return the item anymore also you don't have to do anything else.

I hope that atleast this message made your day a little better. If you need assistance in the future don't hesitate to reach out. Thank you and please don't forget to smile for the rest of your day!

Sincerely,

Justine R.
eBay Customer Support

Pretty weird response from the eBay customer support (it looks as if it was written by a 12 year old), but... yeah. 😁 And that's right, I could have kept the card for free if I wanted to. 😀 (and the card was in very good esthetic condition, with a full box in a pristine state!).
I eventually returned the card to the seller, even though he had been a complete and utter jerk (of course, he did pay for the return shipping, though).

This has always been my experience with eBay. As long as you explain the situation very well in the SNAD case (thus proving that you are not a scammer), you should always win the case against sellers that don't take responsibility for what they are selling.

The customer support guy is almost certainly Indian and uses a fake "English" name - but dang, €352 is a LOT of money for a Voodoo 5 AGP (PCI are worth a shit ton more) with unknown condition. It's scummy of a seller to refuse a refund for such a large amount when the item he is selling was untested.

I'm very careful about buying graphics cards of that era - too many cards back then had insufficient cooling and either they're on their way out or already artifacting even if I immediately reapply thermal paste and replace the thermal pads for the memory chips (if it even HAS any). Heck, I bought 24 graphics cards (low to mid range ones) for only 6 survive now.

I mean, I went through SIX graphics cards back then in the span of 6 years. SIX. I had 2 Guillemot TNT2s in 1999 that died due to overheating in less than a month, replaced it with a Voodoo 3 that was quickly outdated so I got a GeForce 3 Ti 200 in 2001 which died and had to be replaced with a Geforce 4 MX 440 in late 2002 (low end but I was out of money by then) and then finally a very expensive Radeon 9800 Pro in 2004 which lasted just two years due to overheating only to be replaced by the GT 7800 in 2006. I was not a happy camper back then.

BitWrangler wrote on 2021-08-27, 15:05:

By the way, a bit of a hint here is to investigate what the seller usually sells, lots of vintage hardware some tested and guaranteed working and then there's an "untested" part, that's highly suspect. Lots of modern hardware and an untested older part, that's a 50:50 shot, barely any computer stuff at all and lots of general merch, then possibly really doesn't have a clue, but bear in mind that they don't have a clue, and don't rely on anything you can't determine from the picture.

Well a lot of these sellers seem to have connections with recycling centers. Our local recycling park has a bin for old electronics and I asked if I could take a look at the old PCs but someone else had already dibs on it who sold the parts on eBay so it's clear where a lot of these sellers get their stuff from.

The problem is that many of these old PCs get dumped in a non-working state and since the scavengers don't feel like testing the parts, there's always a chance that a graphics card died or a motherboard died but they still rip out all the parts and sell them without testing. It's easy profit with minimal effort and it's the buyer that gets the risk. Even if you get a refund, postage usually is not refunded.

red_avatar wrote on 2021-08-30, 10:10:

[...] but dang, €352 is a LOT of money for a Voodoo 5 AGP (PCI are worth a shit ton more) with unknown condition.

It is, indeed. The only reason I was willing to pay so much for it was the overall pristine condition of the card + box, manual, CDs. It really did look like new. Not to mention that the seller had an impecable record (1200+ positive feedback score - it still baffles me to this day how someone like him managed to have such an impecable feedback score).
I do have another Voodoo 5 5500 card that works fine (and almost never use it), but mine has some scuffs here and there.

red_avatar wrote on 2021-08-30, 10:10:

I'm very careful about buying graphics cards of that era - too many cards back then had insufficient cooling and either they're on their way out or already artifacting even if I immediately reapply thermal paste and replace the thermal pads for the memory chips (if it even HAS any). Heck, I bought 24 graphics cards (low to mid range ones) for only 6 survive now.

That's not my experience. I have hundreds of video cards and even though I've had a few die, the vast majority work great. However, I store them in perfect conditions - antistatic bags, bubble wrap, only a few cards / box + clean closet with no humidity).
Also, now that I think about it, I've only had one video card die on me during usage: an MSI GeForce GTX 760 Twin Frozr OC... that my wife killed with intensive Autocad designs/rendering back in 2013 - 2014. 😀 Fortunately, that happened during warranty, so the card was quickly replaced by a new MSI GTX 760 that still works to this day in my WinXP overkill gaming build. 😀

In my current rig I have an RTX 2060 that I undervolted a year ago, when prices started going crazy. It works perfectly at 1915 MHz @ 0.850V), and by doing this it went from 83 degrees in full load to 68. I am also using VSYNC as much as possible, so in many games the temps will stay below 60. I can't risk this baby dying on me anytime soon, I sure as hell won't pay 1000 euros for a graphics card, screw that! (even though the card is still under warranty, I'm pretty sure that if it dies, they will just issue a refund for the original payment, which was only 250 euros... good times. 😀 )

red_avatar wrote on 2021-08-30, 10:13:

Even if you get a refund, postage usually is not refunded.

Uhm... Read the eBay money back guarantee. Everything is refunded, including shipping. 😀

Fortunately, happy ending for you! 352 euros for even a nice makeover V5 5500 is a bit much.

Ydee wrote on 2021-08-30, 13:06:

Fortunately, happy ending for you! 352 euros for even a nice makeover V5 5500 is a bit much.

A bit much... compared to what? 😀 Take a look on the eBay sold items list.
Unfortunately these are the current prices. 330E + shipping was actually a 'good' price for a Voodoo 5 5500 that looked as new in the original package.
Yes, I'd also like to see them sell for $50, but that will never happen again. 😀 Even defective Voodoo 5 5500 cards are now selling for $200.

bloodem wrote on 2021-08-30, 13:41:

[Unfortunately these are the current prices. 330E + shipping was actually a 'good' price for a Voodoo 5 5500 that looked as new in the original package.

And fully functional. That's what I meant. Yours was not, and for that so much money is too much, even if it has a complete package, I think.
Unfortunately my English is not very good, so maybe it came out differently. Sorry.

Ydee wrote on 2021-08-30, 14:15:

And fully functional. That's what I meant. Yours was not, and for that so much money is too much, even if it has a complete package, I think.
Unfortunately my English is not very good, so maybe it came out differently. Sorry.

Ah, OK, now I understand. 😀
Well, I bought it under the assumption that it was also in working condition. I was actually quite surprised when it turned out to be dead (extreme artifacting), considering its state. It really did look like new.
Anyway, I knew from the get-go that, if something was wrong, I would get my money back - and, of course, I did. 😀