Kahenraz wrote on 2023-02-10, 14:09:

Final Fantasy 7 was designed for a Yamaha XG synthesizer

It also works great with Yamaha YMF7x4 cards (DS-XG). The FF7 config program auto-detects those cards, and sets the music to XG mode, if such a card is present.

I can confirm that it works great with both PCI XG synthesizers, as well as my Yamaha MU50.

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-02-10, 14:09:

Final Fantasy 7 was designed for a Yamaha XG synthesizer, and even shipped with a Yamaha software synthesizer on the CD. It also provided a custom sound font for the AWE32. Fallback was MIDI without XG, which was probably meant for the Windows built-in Roland Synthesizer. I doubt it was ever even tested on a genuine SC-55. The XG MIDI files actually have XG-specific notes, so this is the optimal option, and how it was meant to be played back.

Exactly what I was getting at.

We need a Google doc\sheet that compiles all of this information, because games like this are definitely the exception, but if someone is looking to put together a retro system with the intent of playing a specific game then it would be really nice to know if it's one of the ones that has music composed for a very specific device or standard.

If a document like this doesn't exist, I might have to work on one myself. I don't want to start until I know for sure it hasn't been done though because it could be a lot of work. 😁

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-02-10, 17:56:

We need a Google doc\sheet that compiles all of this information, because games like this are definitely the exception, but if someone is looking to put together a retro system with the intent of playing a specific game then it would be really nice to know if it's one of the ones that has music composed for a very specific device or standard.

The MT-32 page on the Vogons wiki has an "Original Synth" column which identifies the device that the music was composed on.

It mainly focuses on DOS games though.

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-02-10, 14:09:

Final Fantasy 7 was designed for a Yamaha XG synthesizer...

My understanding is that, sometime later in the development process, SquareSoft provided the XG inclusion/support in exchange for Yamaha (Japan) creating the XG music arrangements. By contrast, the SoundFont-based arrangements were done in-house by SquareSoft, suggesting that AWE32/64 support was likely the original design intent. This probably needs to be clarified by someone who was involved.

Cloudschatze wrote on 2023-02-10, 21:21:

My understanding is that, sometime later in the development process, SquareSoft provided the XG inclusion/support in exchange for Yamaha (Japan) creating the XG music arrangements. By contrast, the SoundFont-based arrangements were done in-house by SquareSoft, suggesting that AWE32/64 support was likely the original design intent. This probably needs to be clarified by someone who was involved.

While I can only guess at the developer intent, from testing, I can say that neither the AWE32/64 nor the XG version of the soundtrack sound exactly like the original PlayStation music.

The closest that I could get to the PlayStation was using a Yamaha YMF744 card and selecting "General MIDI" for music (not Yamaha XG) in the FF7 config program.

That's a good point. I've also heard that the PlayStation tracks sound different. So the XG variant would have to be a new composition based on the original synthesis.

I have a sound font somewhere that someone made to try and replicate the samples used on the PlayStation. It can probably be found on Google. I don't know how accurate it is for comparison, but the author seems to believe that it's closer to the console version than either the XG version or the supplied soundfont.

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-02-10, 14:09:

Final Fantasy 7 was designed for a Yamaha XG synthesizer, and even shipped with a Yamaha software synthesizer on the CD. It also provided a custom sound font for the AWE32. Fallback was MIDI without XG, which was probably meant for the Windows built-in Roland Synthesizer. I doubt it was ever even tested on a genuine SC-55. The XG MIDI files actually have XG-specific notes, so this is the optimal option, and how it was meant to be played back.

No, FF7's PC port wasn't designed for XG and wasn't going to use it, initially. Uematsu used Roland gear (SC-88/SC-55 is what he's known to be using around that time) for his arrangements when FF7 and FF8 were on his plate and seemingly had nothing whatsoever to do with the XG arrangement of his MIDI files and samples for the PC ports of either title, which was done while he was busy working on the other projects. The XG soundtrack happened at the last minute and was carried out by an unknown individual working for Yamaha as an employee or contractor and the company takes sole credit for "converting" the GM MIDI files that Uematsu made, into XG-optimized tracks. The proper and intended music for the FF7 PC port is the SoundFont versions, with the included banks supposedly being based on the sound samplings used for the PS1 release, though the banks are obviously terrible and inferior products of their time and most people replace them with custom-made ones from the Internet.

I'm currently on and off a FF7 playthrough on an AWE32 using the included soundfont, and while it sounds slightly different to the original Playstation score (some songs are pretty much one-to-one clones, others have instruments that sounds quite different), I must say so far it sound very good overall and I appreciate the alternative take!

I also remember reading that the original score was made on Roland gear by Uematsu and the XG stuff was a late addition, but can't remember where, it's been ages.

I didn't know this. I had always thought that the XG versions were the defacto versions and the intended sound. After an these years, I'm going to have to revisit this on my Roland equipment and investigate this more.

Does anyone know how to verify the polyphony on the MIDI files to verify whether the original SC-55 is capable of playing back all of the tracks without dropping any notes?

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-02-11, 13:26:

...
Does anyone know how to verify the polyphony on the MIDI files to verify whether the original SC-55 is capable of playing back all of the tracks without dropping any notes?

Unfortunately from a Midi file you can only determine the maximum simultaneous note polyphony but not the voice polyphony (and that is what matters here). Voice polyphony has meaning only in the context of a specific synth implementation.
Namely it is not defined in the Midi file if an instrument uses 1,2 or 4 voice layers or an instrument how long remains sustained after a note off message etc.
Here is a demonstration video about the problems of counting voice polyphony based on note polyphony (posted earlier in this same thread)
https://youtu.be/P6tqLA0V9u4

But maximum note polyphony information can still be somewhat useful since if the maximum note polyphony is high then the voice polyphony requirement is at least that much high. Namely if you find that a Midi file has a maximum simultaneous note polyphony of 29 notes then that Midi file is sure to be problematic even for an SC-55 mkII (that has a 28 max voice polyphony limitation).

You can see the maximum note polyphony during playback in my Midi player version 6.1.1 here:
(PS: make sure that you do not use Midi player in Bassmidi output mode since then it shows the exact voice polyphony data getting directly from Bassmidi)

That's very useful. Thank you.

Rincewind42 wrote on 2023-02-10, 11:58:

I believe I hit the out-of-note-polyphony issue with my SC-55 with the TIE Fighter Collector's Edition intro tune. There's a part with four (I think) rapid string runs in quick succession; my Yamaha MU80 and the Sound Canvas VA play all the string run notes, they're all clearly audible, but the SC-55 only the first few per run and the rest are completely missing.

I wasn't sure about the root cause, but I think the lower of polyphony of the SC-55 (v1.21) sounds like a plausible explanation.

Actually, I've done a recording of the MIDI, so I'll to try play only the string channel in solo. If this theory is correct, then all notes should play out with the channel soloed.

Confirmed, my first revision SC-55 can't handle the note polyphony requirements of the TIE Fighter intro music in a few places. Apparently, that soundtrack was composed on the SC-55mkII. When I mute a few MIDI channels in the problematic section, all missing notes start playing.

Rincewind42 wrote on 2023-02-13, 03:27:

Rincewind42 wrote on 2023-02-10, 11:58:

I believe I hit the out-of-note-polyphony issue with my SC-55 with the TIE Fighter Collector's Edition intro tune. There's a part with four (I think) rapid string runs in quick succession; my Yamaha MU80 and the Sound Canvas VA play all the string run notes, they're all clearly audible, but the SC-55 only the first few per run and the rest are completely missing.

I wasn't sure about the root cause, but I think the lower of polyphony of the SC-55 (v1.21) sounds like a plausible explanation.

Actually, I've done a recording of the MIDI, so I'll to try play only the string channel in solo. If this theory is correct, then all notes should play out with the channel soloed.

Confirmed, my first revision SC-55 can't handle the note polyphony requirements of the TIE Fighter intro music in a few places. Apparently, that soundtrack was composed on the SC-55mkII. When I mute a few MIDI channels in the problematic section, all missing notes start playing.

So, would the SC-7 and RA-30 play the TIE Fighter intro properly since they seem to have the same polyphony as the SC55MKII?

Maybe. I think the SC-7 may distributes voices differently though. These synthesizers have finite resources, so it's hard to truly predict how something is going to sound.

Rincewind42 wrote on 2023-02-13, 03:27:

Rincewind42 wrote on 2023-02-10, 11:58:

I believe I hit the out-of-note-polyphony issue with my SC-55 with the TIE Fighter Collector's Edition intro tune. There's a part with four (I think) rapid string runs in quick succession; my Yamaha MU80 and the Sound Canvas VA play all the string run notes, they're all clearly audible, but the SC-55 only the first few per run and the rest are completely missing.

I wasn't sure about the root cause, but I think the lower of polyphony of the SC-55 (v1.21) sounds like a plausible explanation.

Actually, I've done a recording of the MIDI, so I'll to try play only the string channel in solo. If this theory is correct, then all notes should play out with the channel soloed.

Confirmed, my first revision SC-55 can't handle the note polyphony requirements of the TIE Fighter intro music in a few places. Apparently, that soundtrack was composed on the SC-55mkII. When I mute a few MIDI channels in the problematic section, all missing notes start playing.

Good catch! For a demonstration, compare Roland SC-55 with SC-55mkii. I'll amend the list. I also suspect that Dark Forces might have been composed for the SC-88 as there are a ton of cut off notes during the string section near the end of the main title crawl on both the SC-55 and SC-55mkii.

MIDI gets very awkward once Windows 95 rolled around with its integrated Roland software synthesizer. I think this created an opportunity for people to take polyphony for granted. At least for older DOS and Windows 3.1 games, you can reliability find some piece of actual hardware that can play all of the notes.

Hi,

I'll try to write here, because I'm looking for some information concerning everquest OST.

As I'm going to re-upload on my youtube channel the whole OST, I've seen about this EQMidi (abount 422 files), while on mirsoft, full Everquest OST consist of few more than 90 midi files. Now, in game (if I've understood the right wat) originally was XMI files, which was the real situations? There where more than 400 XMI, ore thers were about 90? As i would like to start work with the most precise starting point I?m trying to seek for information. I've already done several recording with Roland Integra too, but I think I'll use again Roland SD-50 which seems to me the best sounding system for almost the whole OST. (I'm doing some comparing with AWE soudfont as well because I would like to have a recording closest to the original).

Thank you.

Aldo