VOGONS


First post, by davidrg

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Currently I'm using a 133MHz Pentium for my DOS gaming needs but I'm not really satisfied with it. Its a nice machine but the integrated graphics (Matrox MGA Millenium) has issues with Keen and other DOS Games. It can go back on the shelf until I need OS/2 or NT 3.5x for something.

Luckily if there is one thing I have its lots of 386/486/early Pentium era parts. Which is now a problem - I have to make choices. In the past I just grabbed whatever Creative card I found first (usually a Vibra 16) and either a Trident ISA or a random VLB video card plus a random I/O card (VLB if possible). But this time I'd like to make more informed decisions.

While digging through the big box of cards I found a Gravis Ultrasound rev3.4 (where did that come from!?). I've never seen or used one of these before (well, I guess I saw it when I put it in the box) and figured putting it back in the box won't do. So I thought I'd combine that with a SoundBlaster 16 or ViBRA 16 as I'd heard the GUS on its own wasn't great for some games. But then I saw some posts suggesting ESS cards may be better than some Creative cards? And then I found a bunch of cards with a YMF719E chip - what even are these?

According to my database of cards, my current choices are (chipset in brackets):

  • ExpertColor MED3931 (OPTi 82C931)
  • Gravis UltraSound (classic) rev. 3.4 (GF1)
  • Labway A381-F20 (Advanced Logic ALS120)
  • Various Multiwave/Sertek/Genius/Labway/Schubert/Unknown ESS AudioDrive ES1688F
  • Labwave ESS AudioDrive ES1869F
  • Sertek 8305I (ESS AudioDrive ES688F)
  • Aztech SoundGalaxy Pro16 II or Gallant SC6000 (Crystal CS4248-KL)
  • Creative SoundBlaster 16 CT2940 (Creative CT2502-SDQ)
  • Creative CT2970 (Creative CT2502-SDQ)
  • Creative CT2810 (CT2501-TDQ, YMF262M)
  • Creative {ViBRA 16 CT2810, ViBRA 16C CT2960, ViBRA 16S, ViBRA 16XV}
  • Creative SoundBlaster 2.0 CT1336
  • Labway A151830 (Yamaha YMF701-8)
  • Labway A151A00 (Yamaha YMF719E-S)

Which of these is best for mostly DOS games from the likes of Apogee/3D Realms, ID, Epic, Maxis and probably some others? Would adding something like the Dreamblaster X2GS make the GUS redundant?

For video card I'm leaning towards a VLB Cirrus Logic GD5429 or a PCI Trio64 depending on what motherboard I dig up. I've got lots of other choices but based on this those cards seem to have the best compatibility.

Reply 1 of 2, by Cuttoon

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davidrg wrote on 2022-03-12, 00:07:

Currently I'm using a 133MHz Pentium for my DOS gaming needs but I'm not really satisfied with it. Its a nice machine but the integrated graphics (Matrox MGA Millenium) has issues with Keen and other DOS Games. It can go back on the shelf until I need OS/2 or NT 3.5x for something.

🤣, there you've stung a hornet's nest, mate. Expect a bloody avalanche of very specific instructions from the sound card high priests around here!

But my perfectly noob level insight in the matter:

  • ExpertColor MED3931 (OPTi 82C931)
    That one is nice and red, IIRC. Hard to hear the color, though.
    Think it has bad OPL3 sound, but not sure.
  • Gravis UltraSound (classic) rev. 3.4 (GF1)
    Take good care of that thing in case you need a new bicycle some day. Native support by quite some games and maybe the best sound for some of them. Card of choice for DOS demos, really geek friendly.
  • Labway A381-F20 (Advanced Logic ALS120)
    Also, badly implemented OPL3 compatibility with the 100+ and 120. The 100 usually came with discrete YMF-262 (OPL3) clone and provides good SB compatibility.
  • Various Multiwave/Sertek/Genius/Labway/Schubert/Unknown ESS AudioDrive ES1688F
  • Labwave ESS AudioDrive ES1869F
  • Sertek 8305I (ESS AudioDrive ES688F)
  • Aztech SoundGalaxy Pro16 II or Gallant SC6000 (Crystal CS4248-KL)
    See Phil's computer lab about ESS chips, he's quite fond of them. Some 688s at least came with real OPL3 chip.
  • Creative SoundBlaster 16 CT2940 (Creative CT2502-SDQ)
  • Creative CT2970 (Creative CT2502-SDQ)
  • Creative CT2810 (CT2501-TDQ, YMF262M)
  • Creative {ViBRA 16 CT2810, ViBRA 16C CT2960, ViBRA 16S, ViBRA 16XV}
    SB16, there's probably a undergraduate major to be done on them somewhere.
    See lists like this or English equivalents someone will know - they all have their vices and virtues.
    Usually the easiest to set up and the most likely to be supported without a hitch.
  • Creative SoundBlaster 2.0 CT1336
    Old.
  • Labway A151830 (Yamaha YMF701-8)
    Probably true for that one as well, but this definitely is an excellent DOS chip (you'll find a review of the Audition 32 plus at Phil's) :
  • Labway A151A00 (Yamaha YMF719E-S)
davidrg wrote on 2022-03-12, 00:07:

Which of these is best for mostly DOS games from the likes of Apogee/3D Realms, ID, Epic, Maxis and probably some others?

Over all, probably that Yamaha, for good sound quality.
Compatibility, when in doubt, use soundblaster. But two major flaws with most models: No stereo sound with "sound blaster pro" settings, only if the game actually supports the SB16. And some major glitches if you're going to use a Midi device, known as the "hanging note bug".

davidrg wrote on 2022-03-12, 00:07:

Would adding something like the Dreamblaster X2GS make the GUS redundant?

Almost all (mainstream) DOS games from the 90s will support general midi and - personal taste aside - will probably be an improvement over OPL3 FM synthesis.
So, yes, couldn't hurt. The "GS" version is the one for emulating a certain line of Roland gear known as the "GS", general system, iirc. The plain X2 might do.
Moby Games is a pretty good resource on the matter:
https://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/duke-nukem-3d/techinfo

davidrg wrote on 2022-03-12, 00:07:

For video card I'm leaning towards a VLB Cirrus Logic GD5429 or a PCI Trio64 depending on what motherboard I dig up. I've got lots of other choices but based on this those cards seem to have the best compatibility.

Well, if I have a PCI board, I'd go with that. Less trouble. And a PCI Card. Many good cards around and I think the S3 chips worked pretty well.

I like jumpers.

Reply 2 of 2, by aitotat

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If your CT2940 has real OPL3, then use it with GUS. But if you need bug free MPU for the Dreamblaster, go with ESS 1688 or 1869 or YMF719 instead. I think you should try both ESS and YMF and keep the one you like better.