VOGONS


Reply 860 of 958, by Renaissance 2K

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I picked up an MP32L because I wanted to add some Roland magic to my setup (LGR is a helluva drug...) and connected it via the MIDI Out on the back of the Orpheus II. Got it all hooked up, and it's working, but it sounds both the MT-32 and the onboard wavetable (the one with the black PCB that came with the Orpheus I) are rendering audio, which is being stacked.

Admittedly, it sounds kinda cool, but still...

If I want just wavetable MIDI, I can disconnect the MP32L in one of a myriad ways. What if I just want MT-32 MIDI, though, and don't want to open up the PC and disconnect the wavetable? From reading the home page docs, would moving J2 (Wavetable) on the Orpheus II to the 2+3 (CS4237) let me choose between MT-32 or Wavetable by changing the device in a game's setup program?

I'm still tumbling down the rabbit hole and learning things as I go, despite the card's "for experienced users warning", so I appreciate the ongoing assistance. I had no idea these old machines were capable of so much.

Thanks.

Reply 861 of 958, by Shponglefan

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Last edited by Shponglefan on 2024-04-05, 15:11. Edited 1 time in total.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 862 of 958, by Shponglefan

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Lately I've been trying to use the Orpheus II with Windows 3.1 / 3.11. I've been running into system lagging issues any time a digital audio sample is played in games. Games tested include Microsoft Arcade, SimCity 2000 and SimAnt. It's most noticeable with games with a lot of frequent audio like in Microsoft Arcade and renders the games unplayable.

This is the same issue that was reported by ndavis82 back in the original Orpheus thread: Re: Orpheus Soundcard: a new DOS soundcard with SPDIF/OPL3/MPU support

So far I've tried the following:

  • multiple system setups including 486 DX2-66, Pentium 100 and Pentium 4 3.4 GHz
  • Orpheus I, Orpheus II, and Orpheus II LT
  • clean installs of both Windows 3.1 and Windows for Workgroups 3.11
  • different IRQ (5/7) and DMA settings (0/1/3)
  • the official v1.8 Crystal Audio drivers and modified Orpheus Win 3.1 drivers

No matter the configuration the system/audio lagging issue remains the same.

Is there anything else to try or a (hopefully) known solution to this issue? Alternatively, I suppose I could try just using the GUS PnP drivers instead.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 863 of 958, by keropi

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Renaissance 2K wrote on 2024-04-04, 19:57:

[...] If I want just wavetable MIDI, I can disconnect the MP32L in one of a myriad ways. What if I just want MT-32 MIDI, though, and don't want to open up the PC and disconnect the wavetable? [...]

in an ideal world muting wavetable like Shponglefan mentions would work - but games like to mess and/or reset mixer settings
so the best bet is to create a dual-u setup by assigning WT HEADER to CSMPU using the jumper block and enable Crystal MPU with orphinit at port 300
keep the external port as-is assigned to PCMIDI at port 330
games that work with the X2GS-SE black board do not need "intelligent mode" so you just select port 300 in their sound setup
and games that need mt32+intelligent will be available at port 330 like you have it setup now
this way you won't have to plug/unplug devices , only one will be used at a time depending on what port you select

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 864 of 958, by keropi

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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-04-04, 21:01:

[...]Is there anything else to try or a (hopefully) known solution to this issue? Alternatively, I suppose I could try just using the GUS PnP drivers instead.

I do not know of any workaround when this happens - it is unclear why but I just think it's the win3.1x driver to blame: bugged or just poorly made
there is only one version of it from 1996 and that's it
we already know that for win9x driver version makes a difference: PV2860 for pentium1+ and v272 for 486-class systems
so I assume something similar is going on with the win3x driver (bugged or poorly optimized) but we don't have another version to test... the "orpheus win3x" drivers are just ini-modded to behave better in non-PnP systems because the installation procedure is a mess...
I believe not much time was spent developing the win3x drivers - they are there just to say the chip is supported and nothing more 🙁
so we get to suffer nowdays because of that

sorry , but I can't really offer any solution/workaround for this...

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 865 of 958, by 640K!enough

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There are a few important points to consider related to the recent discussion. Most importantly, a setting of WTHeaderVol=0 will not mute that source; a value of 0 means maximum amplification. Only in WSS mode, the appropriate setting would be WTHeaderVol=mute. If mode=sb (which is the detault), one would need to use SB-FMVol=0 for mute, while SB-FMVol=7 is maximum volume.

A further complication for WSS mode only is that there are differences, depending on the generation of Orpheus II board in use. Those with a YMF289 offer completely independent volume settings for FM and InterWave/WT header. Later boards with a YMF262 have all of those signals handled by WTHeaderVol. In SB mode, they are always controlled exclusively by SB-FMVol (on every version of the hardware).

I will look into documenting this a little more clearly in a future version of ORPHINIT, and possibly offering a little more flexibility, but I can't make any definite promises.

Reply 866 of 958, by Shponglefan

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keropi wrote on 2024-04-05, 05:31:
I do not know of any workaround when this happens - it is unclear why but I just think it's the win3.1x driver to blame: bugged […]
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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-04-04, 21:01:

[...]Is there anything else to try or a (hopefully) known solution to this issue? Alternatively, I suppose I could try just using the GUS PnP drivers instead.

I do not know of any workaround when this happens - it is unclear why but I just think it's the win3.1x driver to blame: bugged or just poorly made
there is only one version of it from 1996 and that's it
we already know that for win9x driver version makes a difference: PV2860 for pentium1+ and v272 for 486-class systems
so I assume something similar is going on with the win3x driver (bugged or poorly optimized) but we don't have another version to test... the "orpheus win3x" drivers are just ini-modded to behave better in non-PnP systems because the installation procedure is a mess...
I believe not much time was spent developing the win3x drivers - they are there just to say the chip is supported and nothing more 🙁
so we get to suffer nowdays because of that

sorry , but I can't really offer any solution/workaround for this...

Thanks for the info. Out of curiosity, would drivers for other variations of the chip (e.g. 4235 or something) work? Or are they all basically the same driver to begin with?

I'll probably try the GUS PnP drivers next and hopefully have more success with those.

I'm also going to try to install Crystal drivers for NT 4.0. Not sure if that is something that has been tested, but I'll see how that goes... 😁

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 867 of 958, by NJRoadfan

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Has anyone tried the official Microsoft Windows Sound System drivers in Windows 3.1x? They should at least get digital audio working. FM and MPU-401 can be handled by a separate driver if needed.

I don't know how through the hardware checks are on these drivers. There is no ROM on the WSS ISA card, so being register compatible should be enough. The card will need to be setup with ORPHINIT beforehand since the original WSS driver isn't PnP aware.

Reply 868 of 958, by Renaissance 2K

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keropi wrote on 2024-04-05, 05:15:
Renaissance 2K wrote on 2024-04-04, 19:57:

in an ideal world muting wavetable like Shponglefan mentions would work - but games like to mess and/or reset mixer settings
so the best bet is to create a dual-u setup by assigning WT HEADER to CSMPU using the jumper block and enable Crystal MPU with orphinit at port 300

Yes, this sounds exactly like what I'm looking for!

I'm sorry to annoy everyone with yet another tiny question, especially one that's probably in the docs somewhere, but how do I set the port when I call ORPHINIT? ORPHEUS.INI only has docs for the Sound Blaster port, and I found the /P param, but I can't find a syntax that works.

Reply 869 of 958, by keropi

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Renaissance 2K wrote on 2024-04-07, 05:52:

[...]
I'm sorry to annoy everyone with yet another tiny question, especially one that's probably in the docs somewhere, but how do I set the port when I call ORPHINIT? [...]

all you have to do is go to this section:

; This controls the on-chip Crystal MPU-401-compatible UART.
; This tool has NO control over the PCMIDI device, which is configured
; with on-board jumpers.
MPUBase=disabled
MPUIRQ=disabled

and change to: MPUBase=300
then crystal mpu will be enabled at port300 , assign wt header to it with the jumper block and you'll be good to go

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 870 of 958, by Shponglefan

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NJRoadfan wrote on 2024-04-06, 14:34:

Has anyone tried the official Microsoft Windows Sound System drivers in Windows 3.1x? They should at least get digital audio working. FM and MPU-401 can be handled by a separate driver if needed.

I don't know how through the hardware checks are on these drivers. There is no ROM on the WSS ISA card, so being register compatible should be enough. The card will need to be setup with ORPHINIT beforehand since the original WSS driver isn't PnP aware.

Is there a good source for the WSS drivers for Win 3.1? I looked both in the VOGONS driver library and on archive.org and it looks like the only available drivers are in German.

I suppose I could try them, but I'm wondering if there is an English language version available (or if it even matters).

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 871 of 958, by Renaissance 2K

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keropi wrote on 2024-04-07, 13:07:
all you have to do is go to this section: […]
Show full quote
Renaissance 2K wrote on 2024-04-07, 05:52:

[...]
I'm sorry to annoy everyone with yet another tiny question, especially one that's probably in the docs somewhere, but how do I set the port when I call ORPHINIT? [...]

all you have to do is go to this section:

; This controls the on-chip Crystal MPU-401-compatible UART.
; This tool has NO control over the PCMIDI device, which is configured
; with on-board jumpers.
MPUBase=disabled
MPUIRQ=disabled

and change to: MPUBase=300
then crystal mpu will be enabled at port300 , assign wt header to it with the jumper block and you'll be good to go

Perfection. Now I have access to either of the two MIDI devices with just a port change. Works great so far. Thanks again.

Reply 872 of 958, by NJRoadfan

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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-04-07, 14:27:

Is there a good source for the WSS drivers for Win 3.1? I looked both in the VOGONS driver library and on archive.org and it looks like the only available drivers are in German.

I suppose I could try them, but I'm wondering if there is an English language version available (or if it even matters).

Google: Microsoft Windows Sound System 2.0 (3.5-1.44mb)

Reply 873 of 958, by Shponglefan

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NJRoadfan wrote on 2024-04-07, 19:47:

Google: Microsoft Windows Sound System 2.0 (3.5-1.44mb)

Thank you, found 'em! 😀

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 874 of 958, by sofakng

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Are there any problems using the Orpheus 2 (ie. GUS) on a Super Socket 7 motherboard? (ie. VIA MVP3 chipset)

I haven't tested anything but I'm reading that the Gravis Ultrasound had problems on these boards/chipsets... (PicoGUS project reports problems with this chipset and a video mentioned it also having problems with a real GUS)

Reply 875 of 958, by keropi

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my main retropc is having a HOT-591p MVP3 mobo and I did not encounter any issues... the bios pics etc on the site are actually from this mobo and it's used alongside a twin system for cards testing before shipping

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 877 of 958, by sofakng

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Sorry for another question but can somebody explain the required IRQs and DMAs?

SB/SBPRO/WSS (provided by CSS chip) - IRQ 5 and DMA 1 (can be changed using PNP via UNISOUND or ORPHINIT).
GRAVIS ULTRASOUND - IRQ 7 and DMA 7 (required settings?)
PCMIDI - IRQ # (can be changed using jumpers)

Does that look correct?

Is there a "high" DMA that can or should be used?

I see settings for WSSPlaybackDMA and WSSCaptureDMA which I think refer to these IRQs? (it also seems like might require a second DMA for recording?)

Reply 878 of 958, by keropi

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just a reminder, unisound is not fully compatible with the orpheusII boards

I will list the "ideal" resources:
for SB(pro) you need IRQ5 , DMA1 , ADDRESS 220
configurable with the WSSIRQ= , WSSPlaybackDMA= and SBBase= settings in ORPHEUS.INI
obviously WSSBase= configures the WSS base address and the IRQ/DMA are shared with the SB mode
WSSCaptureDMA= is not used, it is indeed a 2nd DMA for *simultaneous* record+playback - handy for ZOOM calls with your work group 🤣

Gravis UItrasound PnP resources as configured in ULTRASND.ZIP are IRQ7 DMA7 for both playback and recording and address is 240 (settings in IW.INI are the IRQx=, DMAx= and SynthBase= ones)
(unless you want to make UltraSound-powered ZOOM calls - you need to change IRQ2= and DMA2= settings in IW.INI to assign different resources)

PCMIDI ideal settings are IRQ2 and address 330 (you might need to disable ACPI and revert to APM in the MVP3 mobo bios to get back control of IRQ2)

hope this explains things a little

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 879 of 958, by Shponglefan

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Quick question about Orpheus II / GUS PnP support under Windows 3.11.

I installed the GUS PnP and those worked fine. However, I did notice a constant background tone (noise) after doing so.

It went away after changing the Crystal Input setting to "Loop". If I set it to anything else, the tone returns. This has only occurred under Windows 3.11. I did not notice the same issue under DOS or Win 98.

I'm wondering what is the cause?

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Last edited by Shponglefan on 2024-04-16, 10:38. Edited 2 times in total.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards