VOGONS


First post, by FinalJenemba

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After weeks of fighting with various configurations and just not being totally happy with anything I think I've finally landed on what is, for me, just about perfect, and just thought id share!

I'm running 2 sound cards plus a Roland SC-88vl. Not the simplest setup 🤣, but this is how it's cobbled together.

The first card is one of those wild boca research soundexpression cards. It's a ridiculous looking monster, but has excellent SB Pro support and a real Yamaha OPL. This card sounds better than I could ever get my ESS 1868 to sound, yea I know everyone loves them, and maybe its my card but I just never loved it. The line out mode is totally gutless and empty and with the amp on it was distorted, could never find a middle ground. The boca line out is just right, rich and powerful but not amped and clean. It's a non-pnp card, but still requires software to initialize. I went in circles fighting with the drivers, until I learned to throw them away and not use them. If it's only going to be used as a DOS sound card, this is all you need. Just extract the files into a folder and run the software to configure and again at startup to initialize and the card is happy. I didn't do an install, just setup autoexec myself.

The secondary card is a cheap Vibra 16 non-opl pnp card. A few reasons for this. One, there are some dos games that support 16bit and just sound way better, like circle of blood etc. Two, im using the midi out on the boca for the roland, so I need the joystick port. And 3, the Vibras have VERY clean line level output with bass and treble control, so im actually running the CD sound and the Roland sound through the line in on the Vibra. My Altec Lansings have 2 inputs, input 1 is from the Boca and 2 is from the Vibra. It all mixes together with no noise. So I can have any game using any of the sound sources at any time and it just works.

It took a little fiddling, but I got it all working together with 0 drivers or tsr's. Basically on startup I have unisound (god bless that program and JazeFox) initialize the Vibra and set itself to not fight the Boca card. I turn the OPL Emulation and MPU completely off on the vibra since they aren't used. Then I have the opti sound initializer turn on the sound part of the boca card. It's set to all the standard sound blaster addresses, but in reverse of the vibra its gameport is turned off and the MPU is turned on. The boca card has allot of other crap like CDROM controllers, a modem, and a crystal windows sound chip, all of that is disabled. I also disabled the motherboards parallel port in the bios so it wasn't getting in the way. The opti software pulls from its own config file so set blaster does not need to be run twice.

Once that's done somehow it just works. Games run on whatever they are pointed at. Never thought id get that Boca to play nice with itself let alone another card, but it does and like I said sounds excellent. And dont get me started on the Roland, WOW. This is my first experience with hardware MIDI, and y'all weren't kidding, it's glorious. I ordered this little dude from Serdashop and it works perfect, highly recommended. Got here in about a week and I haven't had to use Softmpu on anything ive tried yet its all just worked, but im still new to MIDI. I wouldn't mind adding an MT-32 to this at some point, it would be very easy with the second MIDI out, but they're expensive so that's a one of these days thing 🤣.

The ONLY game I can't get working right is The DIG. It's being super annoying, it works with the opti but just isn't made for 8bit sound. It sees the SB16 just find and detects it with no errors, but the 16bit sound playback is always muted. My other 16bit games work perfect, its just that game, and it works with vibra by itself, just not this config. Driving me crazy, but oh well I can live with one I guess since everything else works. Anyway that's enough rambling, just wanted to share my experience in case anyone else is working on similar stuff!

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Reply 1 of 9, by Joseph_Joestar

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FinalJenemba wrote on 2022-08-17, 06:15:

Never thought id get that Boca to play nice with itself let alone another card, but it does and like I said sounds excellent.

Nice setup! I'm using something similar in my Pentium MMX rig. And yeah, OPTi cards are underrated. They have decent SBPro compatibility, WSS mode for 16-bit audio, genuine OPL3 or a 1:1 copy and bugfree MPU-401. As you say, pairing it with a SB16 card pretty much gets all your bases covered.

The ONLY game I can't get working right is The DIG. It's being super annoying, it works with the opti but just isn't made for 8bit sound. It sees the SB16 just find and detects it with no errors, but the 16bit sound playback is always muted.

I vaguely remember that certain Lucas Arts games with the iMUSE sound system want a SB16 to be at its default settings, meaning A220 I5 D1 H5.

For that reason, I keep two sets of AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS files. One initializes the OPTi at A220 I5 D1 H5 while the other set reverses this and puts the SB16 there while pushing the OPTi to A240 I7 D3. However, my card is a slightly newer OPTi 82C930 which allows its resources to be changed via SNDINIT.EXE. Not sure if that would work in your case.

It could also be that certain games need some extra files from Creative's drivers to initialize correctly. Try using SBBASIC.EXE and CTCMBBS.EXE instead of Unisound and see if that makes any difference. You can get those from Phil's website. Lastly, make sure that you have the T6 parameter in your SET BLASTER variable when using the SB16.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 2 of 9, by Riikcakirds

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FinalJenemba wrote on 2022-08-17, 06:15:

After weeks of fighting with various configurations and just not being totally happy with anything I think I've finally landed on what is, for me, just about perfect, and just thought id share!

I'm running 2 sound cards plus a Roland SC-88vl. Not the simplest setup 🤣, but this is how it's cobbled together.

What io,irq, dma do your use for each card. I assume you change the set blaster variable on the fly in dos depending on what card to use before running a game.

Reply 3 of 9, by FinalJenemba

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Riikcakirds wrote on 2022-08-17, 19:11:
FinalJenemba wrote on 2022-08-17, 06:15:

After weeks of fighting with various configurations and just not being totally happy with anything I think I've finally landed on what is, for me, just about perfect, and just thought id share!

I'm running 2 sound cards plus a Roland SC-88vl. Not the simplest setup 🤣, but this is how it's cobbled together.

What io,irq, dma do your use for each card. I assume you change the set blaster variable on the fly in dos depending on what card to use before running a game.

For the opti I set it to normal 220/1/5/330 opl 388, and for the 16 it’s set to 280/10/3/7 with mpu and opl shut off. At the end of autoexec I have it set the final blaster env to the opti, since some older games don’t ask and I want them to see the opl. But I never really have to set it for the 16, newer games that support it can usually just be setup manually to those addresses.

Reply 4 of 9, by dionb

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FinalJenemba wrote on 2022-08-18, 16:53:

[...]

For the opti I set it to normal 220/1/5/330 opl 388, and for the 16 it’s set to 280/10/3/7 with mpu and opl shut off. At the end of autoexec I have it set the final blaster env to the opti, since some older games don’t ask and I want them to see the opl. But I never really have to set it for the 16, newer games that support it can usually just be setup manually to those addresses.

280 is a pretty eccentric base address, and IRQ 10 is also rather high. Possibly The Dig allows you to select them, but doesn't actually work.

I have a somewhat similar 3-card setup with an SBPro2 clone for MIDI, OPL and WSS, an AWE64 for SB16, AWE and gamepad, and a GUS. Leaving out the GUS it's pretty much the same things as you do. In my case the SBPro2 is an Aztech AZT2320-based card and I've set it to the exact same as you. However I've set the AWE64 to A240 I7 D3 H5. That is supported by just about everything I've come across.

Reply 5 of 9, by SScorpio

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Riikcakirds wrote on 2022-08-17, 19:11:

What io,irq, dma do your use for each card. I assume you change the set blaster variable on the fly in dos depending on what card to use before running a game.

FYI, you can reconfigure PnP cards on the fly with Unisound. I have this same setup with an SB16 Vibra, and YMF718. I also have a McCake on the YMF providing internal MT32, and use the YMF's external MIDI to control my modules. The only thing missing is GUS, and the Orpheus II is going to be make me rethink my setup.

Reply 6 of 9, by FinalJenemba

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dionb wrote on 2022-08-18, 19:05:
FinalJenemba wrote on 2022-08-18, 16:53:

[...]

For the opti I set it to normal 220/1/5/330 opl 388, and for the 16 it’s set to 280/10/3/7 with mpu and opl shut off. At the end of autoexec I have it set the final blaster env to the opti, since some older games don’t ask and I want them to see the opl. But I never really have to set it for the 16, newer games that support it can usually just be setup manually to those addresses.

280 is a pretty eccentric base address, and IRQ 10 is also rather high. Possibly The Dig allows you to select them, but doesn't actually work.

I have a somewhat similar 3-card setup with an SBPro2 clone for MIDI, OPL and WSS, an AWE64 for SB16, AWE and gamepad, and a GUS. Leaving out the GUS it's pretty much the same things as you do. In my case the SBPro2 is an Aztech AZT2320-based card and I've set it to the exact same as you. However I've set the AWE64 to A240 I7 D3 H5. That is supported by just about everything I've come across.

Well hot damn you were right, I appreciate the tip! I think the key was setting the high DMA at 5. But either way I mirrored your settings and the DIG is happy now. Thanks!

Just curious, do you really need the SBPro2 card if you have a AWE64? Don’t the 64’s have a real OPL?

Reply 7 of 9, by dionb

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FinalJenemba wrote on 2022-08-18, 23:24:

[...]

Well hot damn you were right, I appreciate the tip! I think the key was setting the high DMA at 5. But either way I mirrored your settings and the DIG is happy now. Thanks!

Just curious, do you really need the SBPro2 card if you have a AWE64? Don’t the 64’s have a real OPL?

SBPro2 isn't really needed - supposedly some games get stereo wrong with SB16 instead of SBPro2, but I've not encountered it.

What that card brings to the build:
- WSS
- real OPL3 (AWE64 all have CQM)
- frees up the game port on the AWE64 for a game controller (although the GUS can also do this)
- above all, bug-free MIDI.

The AWE64 only has MIDI slowdowns when using 16b audio and MIDI at the same time, but they irritate the hell out of me. By using a different card for MIDI, there are no slowdowns when using SB16.

Reply 8 of 9, by FinalJenemba

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dionb wrote on 2022-08-19, 01:07:
SBPro2 isn't really needed - supposedly some games get stereo wrong with SB16 instead of SBPro2, but I've not encountered it. […]
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SBPro2 isn't really needed - supposedly some games get stereo wrong with SB16 instead of SBPro2, but I've not encountered it.

What that card brings to the build:
- WSS
- real OPL3 (AWE64 all have CQM)
- frees up the game port on the AWE64 for a game controller (although the GUS can also do this)
- above all, bug-free MIDI.

The AWE64 only has MIDI slowdowns when using 16b audio and MIDI at the same time, but they irritate the hell out of me. By using a different card for MIDI, there are no slowdowns when using SB16.

Interesting. For some reason I was thinking the 64 had real OPL, but yea if it’s CQM it’s worth the upgrade for sure. And it’s funny you should mention that, I’ve been noticing that I get better performance for all concerned if I use the cards separately for the music and digital sound. Like if I offload the SB to the 16 and just use the Boca for FM they both sound better than if I use the one card for both. And same with using the SB16 and then using the Boca for the midi out, that’s def the best combo. Was thinking it was in my head, glad it isn’t!

Reply 9 of 9, by Jo22

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Some SB16 cards with EMU8000 have a real OPL3 or can be upgraded with one.

"SoundBlaster 32 model CT3930"

YMF289 upgradeable:

"SoundBlaster 32 model CT3600 and the SoundBlaster AWE32 model CT3990."

Source: Old thread over here -> AWE32 with RAM and OPL?

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