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Final Fantasy VII AWE Ripping

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Reply 20 of 28, by gigatek

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S95Sedan wrote on 2022-09-26, 14:56:
gigatek wrote on 2022-09-25, 18:44:
S95Sedan wrote on 2022-09-25, 14:19:

Yes, its recorded on a CT3900 with Dsp 4.04, same card as posted here; Re: Sound Blaster: From best to worst

It still be wary without verifying, by default on the AWE32 theres chorus and reverb enabled aswell (its off in the recording), could be the case for the AWE64 aswell.
Though i dont own that card so cant check.

so the reverb and chorus are disabled in these tracks, the reverb doesn't bother me as long as it is less strong than that of AWE64 from the link I posted, if you could record them with reverb & chorus that would be great too (and better to compare of course, since it seemed less strong from what I heard with Timidity++)

It doesnt work like that, you cant compare tracks with those enabled as there are about 15 settings of each.
Like i said you need a clean awe64 track aswell if you truely want a proper comparison.

Ok, what I had in mind is that the custom soundfonts were intended to sound good with all the default settings enabled, but I'm not sure I understood correctly the clean AWE64 track part, you mean by disabling the default settings / effects? Because I guess the one in the link I posted kept the default settings, and I wanted to compare with all the default settings (especially since I don't think we can change them with emulation)

Reply 21 of 28, by S95Sedan

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gigatek wrote on 2022-09-26, 17:45:
S95Sedan wrote on 2022-09-26, 14:56:
gigatek wrote on 2022-09-25, 18:44:

so the reverb and chorus are disabled in these tracks, the reverb doesn't bother me as long as it is less strong than that of AWE64 from the link I posted, if you could record them with reverb & chorus that would be great too (and better to compare of course, since it seemed less strong from what I heard with Timidity++)

It doesnt work like that, you cant compare tracks with those enabled as there are about 15 settings of each.
Like i said you need a clean awe64 track aswell if you truely want a proper comparison.

Ok, what I had in mind is that the custom soundfonts were intended to sound good with all the default settings enabled, but I'm not sure I understood correctly the clean AWE64 track part, you mean by disabling the default settings / effects? Because I guess the one in the link I posted kept the default settings, and I wanted to compare with all the default settings (especially since I don't think we can change them with emulation)

The soundfont loading is seperate from the other settings like reverb/chorus, you can change those accord to personal preference, same for bass and treble. (see the attached file, thats the control panel for it)
I assume the awe64 works similarly as the linked track sounds like it has alot of effects enabled ontop. (Heres a video that shows what certain ranges do; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oSnhqMsmWM )

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Reply 22 of 28, by gigatek

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S95Sedan wrote on 2022-09-26, 19:24:
gigatek wrote on 2022-09-26, 17:45:
S95Sedan wrote on 2022-09-26, 14:56:

It doesnt work like that, you cant compare tracks with those enabled as there are about 15 settings of each.
Like i said you need a clean awe64 track aswell if you truely want a proper comparison.

Ok, what I had in mind is that the custom soundfonts were intended to sound good with all the default settings enabled, but I'm not sure I understood correctly the clean AWE64 track part, you mean by disabling the default settings / effects? Because I guess the one in the link I posted kept the default settings, and I wanted to compare with all the default settings (especially since I don't think we can change them with emulation)

The soundfont loading is seperate from the other settings like reverb/chorus, you can change those accord to personal preference, same for bass and treble. (see the attached file, thats the control panel for it)
I assume the awe64 works similarly as the linked track sounds like it has alot of effects enabled ontop. (Heres a video that shows what certain ranges do; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oSnhqMsmWM )

So we could do it back in the day and we can say that there is not necessarily a fixed reference (unless they have specifically designed the soundfonts for the default settings but nothing indicates it, afaik), it's good to know because i had in mind that if it sounded slightly different with emulation it would be considered as innacuracy but in this context if there are small differences with emulation then it's more acceptable.

Reply 24 of 28, by S95Sedan

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gigatek wrote on 2022-09-27, 16:37:
S95Sedan wrote on 2022-09-26, 19:24:
gigatek wrote on 2022-09-26, 17:45:

Ok, what I had in mind is that the custom soundfonts were intended to sound good with all the default settings enabled, but I'm not sure I understood correctly the clean AWE64 track part, you mean by disabling the default settings / effects? Because I guess the one in the link I posted kept the default settings, and I wanted to compare with all the default settings (especially since I don't think we can change them with emulation)

The soundfont loading is seperate from the other settings like reverb/chorus, you can change those accord to personal preference, same for bass and treble. (see the attached file, thats the control panel for it)
I assume the awe64 works similarly as the linked track sounds like it has alot of effects enabled ontop. (Heres a video that shows what certain ranges do; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oSnhqMsmWM )

So we could do it back in the day and we can say that there is not necessarily a fixed reference (unless they have specifically designed the soundfonts for the default settings but nothing indicates it, afaik), it's good to know because i had in mind that if it sounded slightly different with emulation it would be considered as innacuracy but in this context if there are small differences with emulation then it's more acceptable.

I'd mostly go by personal taste, as its more important that its enjoyable to listen to, standards also were pretty new back when they made all the cards so there will always be differences.
The card i own even has multiple (sub) revisions which have minimal changes but every little bit alters sound offcourse.

Though im not into emulating myself so couldnt really tell the difference between that and the real hardware.

Reply 25 of 28, by gigatek

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S95Sedan wrote:

I'd mostly go by personal taste, as its more important that its enjoyable to listen to, standards also were pretty new back when they made all the cards so there will always be differences.
The card i own even has multiple (sub) revisions which have minimal changes but every little bit alters sound offcourse.

Though im not into emulating myself so couldnt really tell the difference between that and the real hardware.

interesting, also I think that the PC version soundtrack just wasn't as "polished" as the ps1 version (overall) regardless of the soundcards used, for the XG version there are plenty of tracks that I really prefer over PS1 versions but those that I like less have about the same flaws regardless of the soundcard and module used so it looks like it's more related to midis / bad choice of instruments and effects, and it's the same for AWE version with the soundfonts so I don't think the default settings for reverb and other effects were really what they intended but rather that it was an approximation of the PS1 version (although some tracks can sound better in some ways).

Reply 26 of 28, by Joseph_Joestar

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gigatek wrote on 2022-10-01, 19:08:

interesting, also I think that the PC version soundtrack just wasn't as "polished" as the ps1 version (overall) regardless of the soundcards used, for the XG version there are plenty of tracks that I really prefer over PS1 versions but those that I like less have about the same flaws regardless of the soundcard and module used so it looks like it's more related to midis / bad choice of instruments and effects, and it's the same for AWE version with the soundfonts so I don't think the default settings for reverb and other effects were really what they intended but rather that it was an approximation of the PS1 version (although some tracks can sound better in some ways).

If you select General MIDI instead of Yamaha XG for music when using a YMF744 card (and possibly a Yamaha external MIDI device), you'll get something that sounds very similar to the original PlayStation soundtrack.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 27 of 28, by gigatek

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-10-01, 19:46:

If you select General MIDI instead of Yamaha XG for music when using a YMF744 card (and possibly a Yamaha external MIDI device), you'll get something that sounds very similar to the original PlayStation soundtrack.

seems good, and it's a PCI card, it reminds me that in the game's manual it's said that we have to use General Midi for the S-YXG70 softsynth:

"General MIDI is for all wavetable synthesis cards or any sound card in general. You should also use General MIDI for the Yamaha S-YXG70 software synthesizer. Soundfont MIDI is for Creative Labs AWE sound cards. Yamaha XG MIDI is for XG MIDI-compatible sound cards (NOT for the Yamaha S-YXG70 software synthesizer)."
(https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fa … y_VII/Manual/PC)

but there are also the YGM Midis, and IIRC these are the ones that were supposed to be used for the S-YXG70, but I may be wrong and the manual is not specific about that, in any case I don't know if it would sound different from the XG Midis (I don't have win98 so I can't test with the S-YXG70 for now), and since the manual says that "General MIDI is for all wavetable synthesis cards or any sound card in general" I wonder what other good/best/recommended cards there are for that (especially those that were available at the time but also others, I guess the YMF744 can be considered as such), the only versions I listened to with General Midis were with Roland modules.

Reply 28 of 28, by zaphod77

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sorry to bump but i've got real information here. 😀

It's easy enough to get the midi data out of the game. i've done it in the past. they are stored inside lgp files. they are midi.lgp, awe.lgp, xg.lgp, and ygm.lgp.

you need to load the 3.5 meg bank to user bank 1 on a real soundcard, and the one winged angel bank when that midi is played back. it IS possible to combine the two banks into one, as i recall, but all i'm sure of at the moment is that the main awe32 bank goes to user bank 1 (all the bank numbers become one higher that way, and match the midi files). If you open the one winged angel full midi file for awe it should be possible to guess the right user bank to load lb2.sf2 into. the midis are all in awe.lgp. be sure and use a player that understands loopStart/loopEnd to play them, like foobar2000, or winamp.

that said, there are many mistakes in the awe files, because they were based off an earlier version, so they really aren't the best to rip. a small smattering of mistakes.

1) wrong instruments selected in many cases. the battle theme is one of the more notable ones, but not the only one. the wrong bank is used right off the bat.
2) underneath the rotting pizza is sequenced wrong. the riff is supposed to use pitch wheel as part of it. Should sound like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z7GhhI7AGo , but on the awe version each of the bass notes is it's own, so it incorrectly goes "bow bow bow bow, bow bow" instead of doing the pitch bends. i actually made a fix for this, though i think it lost the drum kit when i wrote it out (this song has it's own "Dokubo percussion" drumkit). Also wrong in XG midis.
3) missing notes in the main battle theme. the ocarina starts harmonizing near the end on the actual PSX version. Missing in all files, including XG.
4) filter sweep effect on the bass missing on Hurry! The awe32 COULD HAVE DONE THIS, and only the PSX version actually does it. Not even the XG version gets this right, and that could have done it as well.
5) volume levels are off in many cases, with stuff too quiet in a number of the midi files. The XG midi files (and YGM as well) do have proper balance.
6) portmanteau missing from You Can Hear the Cries of the Planet. XG does have this correct.
7) wrong number of loops in electric de chocobo before the surf riff. This one IS fixed in XG and YGM.

btw, the GM ones are simply the awe32 mid files with one subtracted from the bank numbers. you probably actually want the YGM ones for actual general midi devices.

the ygm ones from ygm.lgp were intended for use with the sy-xg20 synth (the low cpu mode of sy-xg70), but should sound decent on any other general midi device with sound canvas ish or xg-ish patch dynamics. The xg.lgp has the full mu-50/db50xg/sw60xg/sy-xg50. midi files in it.

To play back the midi files in awe.lgp as intended in a softsynth, you'd want to load 1mgm.sf2 (the ACTUAL rom bank that real awe32s all have as a soundfont) as bank zero, and ff7.sf2 in user bank 1. I think loading lb2.sf2 in user bank one will do one winged angel, but it's been a while.