Well, changing the setup to use a Thunderboard has fixed the issue. Strange...

This is I think an IRQ issue, maybe the ThunderBoard driver uses a different IRQ port? I know with the same setup on a Pentium 1 I had to play with drivers for some games. Not sure I ever got QFG4 working outside the Windows version.

Spikey wrote on 2022-10-28, 15:22:

This is I think an IRQ issue, maybe the ThunderBoard driver uses a different IRQ port? I know with the same setup on a Pentium 1 I had to play with drivers for some games. Not sure I ever got QFG4 working outside the Windows version.

Is there a way to change the IRQ KQ6 uses?

Also, King's Quest V locked up during the beginning when Crispin walks over to the chest to get an item for Graham...

Scythifuge wrote on 2022-10-28, 17:12:

Spikey wrote on 2022-10-28, 15:22:

This is I think an IRQ issue, maybe the ThunderBoard driver uses a different IRQ port? I know with the same setup on a Pentium 1 I had to play with drivers for some games. Not sure I ever got QFG4 working outside the Windows version.

Is there a way to change the IRQ KQ6 uses?

Also, King's Quest V locked up during the beginning when Crispin walks over to the chest to get an item for Graham...

KQ5 has several bugs, I'm guessing you're playing the CD version? I would absolutely recommend the floppy version. Of course, you'll want to play it with MT-32.

As for IRQ, it's been a long time since I used old hardware, but you have to set it in DOS, I think? SETBLASTER command in autoexec.bat or something. It affects all games, not just one, so you need to play with it. I think the combo of AWE32 and SC-55 has a conflict, though, because that was the combo I used on retro hardware and always had issues with.

Spikey wrote on 2022-10-29, 04:22:

Scythifuge wrote on 2022-10-28, 17:12:

Spikey wrote on 2022-10-28, 15:22:

This is I think an IRQ issue, maybe the ThunderBoard driver uses a different IRQ port? I know with the same setup on a Pentium 1 I had to play with drivers for some games. Not sure I ever got QFG4 working outside the Windows version.

Is there a way to change the IRQ KQ6 uses?

Also, King's Quest V locked up during the beginning when Crispin walks over to the chest to get an item for Graham...

KQ5 has several bugs, I'm guessing you're playing the CD version? I would absolutely recommend the floppy version. Of course, you'll want to play it with MT-32.

As for IRQ, it's been a long time since I used old hardware, but you have to set it in DOS, I think? SETBLASTER command in autoexec.bat or something. It affects all games, not just one, so you need to play with it. I think the combo of AWE32 and SC-55 has a conflict, though, because that was the combo I used on retro hardware and always had issues with.

Indeed, I am using the CD version of KQ5! I was trying to enjoy the whole "entering into the age of the MPC" experience with KQ5, but the voices of the characters are really, really bad... It was passable back in the day, due to the novelty of it, but it is a hard sell, now. I say this as someone who champions the old ways!

I could try a mutli config/autoexec situation to test if KQ6 needs IRQ7 over IRQ5. Come to think of it, almost all of my 90's MS-DOS gaming was always based on an IRQ of 7, including the card which came with my Reveal Multimedia Upgrade Kit back in 93 (which came with KQ6, Stellar 7, Chess Master 3000, and the Grolier Encyclopedia.) I went from SB Pro clones to a Live! in 1999. However, when I started building retro PCs, I always went for an AWE32 and other hardware which I didn't get to experience as a kid, and I remember being surprised at the switch to IRQ5.

Yeah, I had an AWE32 as a kid - it was (and is) a great card, but has a few quirks.

Indeed, I am using the CD version of KQ5! I was trying to enjoy the whole "entering into the age of the MPC" experience with KQ5, but the voices of the characters are really, really bad... It was passable back inb tghe day, due to teh novelty of it, but it is a hard sell, now. I say this as someone who champions the old ways!

Yeah, this is my feelings as well. Almost all voices were done-in house, and while undoubtedly amazing in 1990, it is pretty awful today.

I don't see any benefit from KQ5CD over the floppy, in fact, with the floppy you have fewer bugs, better music (MT-32), no horrible voices and even the copy protection which gives a narrative use for the wand!

Spikey wrote on 2022-11-01, 08:08:

Yeah, I had an AWE32 as a kid - it was (and is) a great card, but has a few quirks. […]
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Yeah, I had an AWE32 as a kid - it was (and is) a great card, but has a few quirks.

Indeed, I am using the CD version of KQ5! I was trying to enjoy the whole "entering into the age of the MPC" experience with KQ5, but the voices of the characters are really, really bad... It was passable back inb tghe day, due to teh novelty of it, but it is a hard sell, now. I say this as someone who champions the old ways!

Yeah, this is my feelings as well. Almost all voices were done-in house, and while undoubtedly amazing in 1990, it is pretty awful today.

I don't see any benefit from KQ5CD over the floppy, in fact, with the floppy you have fewer bugs, better music (MT-32), no horrible voices and even the copy protection which gives a narrative use for the wand!

I will probably go with the floppy version. KQ6 was leaps and bounds better than V, as far as CD versions go!

Spikey wrote on 2022-11-01, 08:08:

I don't see any benefit from KQ5CD over the floppy, in fact, with the floppy you have fewer bugs, better music (MT-32), no horrible voices and even the copy protection which gives a narrative use for the wand!

Hoooooooooo I don't know if I'd go that far. Hoooooooooo would agree with me?

Not many it seems. 😜

Also, I agree about KQ6 being a better multimedia version. Still not crazy about the voices, though.

I know it has been a while since I was active in this thread, but I wanted to update:

I had replaced my AWE32 with a K2Y-Pro16 Opti card in order to make my 486 closer to the one I had, back in the day. Fresh installs of MS-DOS and everything. The issue with King's Quest VI remains, but a little different. Speech works once or twice while interacting around the beach. When I move the wood to reveal the box, the narrator speech begins skipping and then the system locks hard. Switching the sound card to Thunderboard fixes the audio as it did with the AWE32.

I may try changing the IRQ, though it is set to what it is to avoid a conflict with my NIC. I haven't tried setting music and sound to the same device, though I don't know if that would matter. Honestly, I think it is my motherboard. The SIS chipset seems to be problematic in other ways (such as not allowing a parallel port CF card reader to work, and there are a couple of stability issues. I remember getting my first Pentium PC (90Mhz) and trying to play Veil of Darkness and the digitized speech in the intro was distorted and scratchy. I remember randomly picking a jumper and changing it (I didn't know what I was doing.) It overclocked my CPU by 10Mhz and fixed the sound issue, so maybe I should start examining the jumpers on this motherboard. (Tomato 4dps.)

At this point, I hope to get my hands on another socket 3 board with PCI slots and a P2/2 mouse port - a board with anything other than a SIS chipset.

Scythifuge wrote on 2024-03-14, 04:50:

I had replaced my AWE32 with a K2Y-Pro16 Opti card

That OPTi card probably has Windows Sound System (WSS) support. Try selecting that instead of Sound Blaster in setup. As I recall, WSS fares a bit better than Sierra's buggy Sound Blaster driver in older versions of their games.

EDIT - thinking back, the floppy release of KQ6 may not have WSS as a setup option. The CD version does.

Update:

I was playing Gabriel Knight 1. Just like KQ6, there are issues with digitized speech. No lockups with this game, and some speech plays normally. However, some lines are garbled or are skipping. Changing the sound card to Thunderboard fixes the issue. I haven't changed the IRQ in autoexec.bat or with sndinit, but these issues are occurring with both an opti card and an AWE32. Unrelated - in another thread, I was trying to get a parallel port CF reader working, and I couldn't succeed with that endeavor, and diagnosed the issue as a SIS chipset issue. I have used my AWE32 in other systems and these games were fine, so I think that while the 4dps has benefits, this SIS chipset ruins the experience. For some reason, it causes issues with basic PC functionality. SO it is still looking as if I need to find a different socket 3 board (with PCI and PS/2,) forget using a 486 and get a Pentium 166MMX and use moslo deluxe for pre-Pentium stuff, use one of my P3's with moslo deluxe, or give up using real hardware and sticj with DOSBox and 86box.

What happens if you run Duke Nukum II, just let it run the attract mode. I found on one of my machines that it locked up when the gunshots started firing at the training facility.

This was because I hadn't set up the sound card TSR's properly, DIAGNOSE and so on. Once this was done it all worked correctly.

Okay this is driving me up the WALL. I just played Quest for Glory 1-3 over the last week and transferred my character into Shadows of Darkness on what must be my 3rd, 4th, or 5th playthrough. This is the Anthology version with the CD version of IV. GUESS WHAT? Garbled, skippy-speech, just like every other Sierra TALKIE game I have tested on this system. Every Sierra CD TALKIE game, thus far, has had the same exact core issue and each one handle the core issue differently (lock ups or not.) John Rhys-Davies talks normally for one moment, and then garbled-skippy speech the next. This game does support Windows Sound System, so since I am using an OPTi, I tried that. The game is playable, but the speech has a popping/crackling/static sound to it as if a record is scratched or a speaker has a hole in it. Also, the choosing "Thunderboard" trick which fixes KQ6 and almost fixes Gabriel Knight (most speech works, but there are random glitches,) DOES NOT work to fix QG4. Speech is still garbled.

ONLY SIERRA TALKIES are affected. Veil of Darkness with a patch for allowing sound effects plus midi w/digitized speech works. Hell, EVERY other game tested works with this particular 486. ONLY Sierra talkies (KQ6/GK1/QFG4 tested) does this utterly stupid speech thing. I have tried:

Changing the IRQ of the sound card

Increasing buffers/removing buffers via the mscdex parameters

Switching from a quad speed cdrom to some form of much faster DVD-rom drive

Using an AWE32, an OPTi SB Pro card in both SB PRo mode and Windows Sound System Mode in the same system (but obviously installed and tested separately)

Using Moslo (I know it shouldn't be necessary on a 486, but I need to eliminate all possibilities)

Disabling external cache in the BIOS

I have played these games on multiple systems over the years from a 486SX to Pentium I, II, and III's, and DOSBox on various modern systems. Only THIS particular, SIS-based, Tomato 4dps board are these extremely particular issues present. Only Sierra CD-talkies. What the hell. I don't know what else to try. I was wondering if there is a bad capacitor or something, but I doubt it because every other game works. Midi, speech, sound effects, CD audio - no issues with any other game. I just tested Day of the Tentacle cd-talkie edition, and it is accessing the cdrom drive and playing midi music, and sound blaster effects/speech with no problems.

It has to be this motherboard - this accursed SIS chipset... SIS and Sierra must not be able to mix...

The speech issues with late Sierra DOS releases will lead you down a deep rabbit hole... Abandon the idea... Play the Windows versions or better yet, emulate the DOS versions in SCUMMVM.

mockingbird wrote on 2024-03-26, 02:28:

The speech issues with late Sierra DOS releases will lead you down a deep rabbit hole... Abandon the idea... Play the Windows versions or better yet, emulate the DOS versions in SCUMMVM.

I tried to install and play the Windows 3.x version on this system, and I either cannot get it to run, or it runs without utilizing the MPU-IPC-T. So far, the only options, currently, are to deal with the screwed up Windows Sound System or SB Pro options, or try to emulate DOS through 86box or DOSbox and hope that a CRT shader can trick my eyes, or to build another retro system and/or hope that moslo deluxe can actually provide a retro experience.

Scythifuge wrote on 2024-03-26, 03:27:

I tried to install and play the Windows 3.x version on this system, and I either cannot get it to run, or it runs without utilizing the MPU-IPC-T. So far, the only options, currently, are to deal with the screwed up Windows Sound System or SB Pro options, or try to emulate DOS through 86box or DOSbox and hope that a CRT shader can trick my eyes, or to build another retro system and/or hope that moslo deluxe can actually provide a retro experience.

I am in the same boat as you... I have no issues with the Roland/General MIDI support with a MT32 Pi hooked up through my com port, but I have been trying to get WSS supported in DOS.

I long ago ditched my SiS 486 motherboard in favour of something from UMC... but I can't get it working 100% because it's a PCI 486 system... If I do, I'll report back.

@Scythifuge -

I now have WSS working for the first time (with help from @Joseph_Joestar) on my system. I am running an Asus VL/I-486SV2GX4 (SiS chipset). My soundcard is a CMI8330.

KQVI requires WSS to be set to IRQ 7 and DMA 1, make certain you have it configured that way.

My Opti 82C924 locked up, but @Joseph_Joestar reports it working with the 92c930 - so maybe they fixed something in that revision.

I am running a Cyrix 5x86 @ 100mhz - I did not have to reduce the speed to 33mhz with setmul, so no speed sensitivity issues.

If you change your settings, make sure to reflect that change in your SET BLASTER variable (not related to KQ6 per se - but I was scratching my head trying to figure out why there was only music but no SFX in Doom... Doom relies on the SET BLASTER variable for SFX, it seems. I had to move SB to DMA3 so that I could use DMA1 with the WSS).

So I recommend you try one of those two cards if you want WSS.

Just an FYI, Aladdin also worked well with my CMI8330 for WSS, but not Lion King. And then when I tried it with SB it wouldn't produce sound at all when set at DMA 3. Oh well. I can live without Lion King.

Good luck.

mockingbird wrote on 2024-03-27, 05:10:

@Scythifuge - […]
Show full quote

@Scythifuge -

I now have WSS working for the first time (with help from @Joseph_Joestar) on my system. I am running an Asus VL/I-486SV2GX4 (SiS chipset). My soundcard is a CMI8330.

KQVI requires WSS to be set to IRQ 7 and DMA 1, make certain you have it configured that way.

My Opti 82C924 locked up, but @Joseph_Joestar reports it working with the 92c930 - so maybe they fixed something in that revision.

I am running a Cyrix 5x86 @ 100mhz - I did not have to reduce the speed to 33mhz with setmul, so no speed sensitivity issues.

If you change your settings, make sure to reflect that change in your SET BLASTER variable (not related to KQ6 per se - but I was scratching my head trying to figure out why there was only music but no SFX in Doom... Doom relies on the SET BLASTER variable for SFX, it seems. I had to move SB to DMA3 so that I could use DMA1 with the WSS).

So I recommend you try one of those two cards if you want WSS.

Just an FYI, Aladdin also worked well with my CMI8330 for WSS, but not Lion King. And then when I tried it with SB it wouldn't produce sound at all when set at DMA 3. Oh well. I can live without Lion King.

Good luck.

Thank you for your efforts and information! I do have my WSS settings set as you have them. I cannot manage to get the popping/crackling in QFG4 to get any better. I was using some OPTi drivers and I tried Diamond's version, with the same results. I am about to try the driver I found in this thread and see if it works:

Re: Brand New Drivers for OPTI 82C929 and 82C924 including StereoFix

If not, I may just play QfG4 through DOSBox, 86box, or using an OSSC on a different system altogether, especially with the 1.8 firmware update with the enhanced CRT emulation. I really want to maintain and use this 486, though I may just try to hunt down a Pentium 1 MMX system with the ISA slots I need, and then use Moslo Deluxe to emulate a 486 (and 386) as needed. However, that may be an extreme option since all other games play fine. Using a Win9x/XP/modern system for IV might be the way to go since I will need such a machine to play the 5th game. DOSBox Staging now comes with a really good CRT shader which Phil's Computer Lab reviewed next to an actual CRT and he said it was really close. I spoke with the fellow who modified those shaders from other shaders and got info on how to tweak it so it works with 86box, and I have been getting decent results. I just think that my 486 will have these Sierra issues no matter what since I was having them with an AWE32 as well as the OPTi card.