dionb wrote on 2023-02-08, 12:10:

I'd also argue that the MPU-401AT is rather wasted on a system with these cards - if you're running games that need intelligent mode, you'd want basic AdLib, SB 1.0 and maybe CMS and Covox as alternatives, not GUS and AWE.

The main reason I included it is for the wavetable header. Both the AWE64 and GUS Extreme lack a wavetable header, so for using wavetable daughtercards, an additional card is needed. That the MPU-401 AT also acts as an external MIDI interface with intelligent mode support is a bonus.

I agree that for older era (e.g. late 80s to early 90s), this setup isn't ideal.

The earlier shot I posted of the Epson 286 with 4 sound cards is outfitted with an Adlib, Roland LAPC-I, IBM Music Feature card and Game Blaster. It's specifically intended to cover the options from the late 80s.

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-02-08, 14:02:

I get some crazy conflicts though , usually I find I have to resort to picking the GUS for the sound effects in certain games because the sb16 locks the pc up.
Or if I pick the gravis for certain other games when using a gamepad the character starts moving by itself so I have to use the sb16 instead.

Which games are you having issues with?

The one thing I have noticed in my setup is that auto-detection for SB support can be unpredictable in older titles. For example Wolfenstein 3D uses the AWE64 for digital audio effects, but the GUS Extreme (via the ESS1688F chip) for FM synthesis.

I also haven't tried using a gamepad yet, so I may give that a go as well and see if any issues arise there.

I never had issues using the gamepad connected to the GUS and ULTRAJOY can be used to adjust the speed compensation if calibration isn't available. Also, I never had to use the GUS for sound effects as a last resort (in games that doesn't take advantage of the GUS hardware mixer) with my unusual combination of SBPro2, AWE64 and GUS on a single computer.

And yes, auto-detection support for SB can be unpredictable. There are some titles that uses the FM synth thru the SB I/O address and in some cases, it disregards the BLASTER environment variable (Llamatron 2112 comes to mind).

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-02-08, 17:45:

Which games are you having issues with? […]
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AppleSauce wrote on 2023-02-08, 14:02:

I get some crazy conflicts though , usually I find I have to resort to picking the GUS for the sound effects in certain games because the sb16 locks the pc up.
Or if I pick the gravis for certain other games when using a gamepad the character starts moving by itself so I have to use the sb16 instead.

Which games are you having issues with?

The one thing I have noticed in my setup is that auto-detection for SB support can be unpredictable in older titles. For example Wolfenstein 3D uses the AWE64 for digital audio effects, but the GUS Extreme (via the ESS1688F chip) for FM synthesis.

I also haven't tried using a gamepad yet, so I may give that a go as well and see if any issues arise there.

Mainly Turrican 2 and Inner Worlds are giving me grief , I've also got a weird situation where the 1.0 floppy version of TFX uses my CT1740 sb16 for music and the awe64 for SFX and since the game autodetects you cant change it.

It might also just be that the gravis gamepad has drift problems.

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-02-09, 07:15:

Mainly Turrican 2 and Inner Worlds are giving me grief ,

Tested Turrican 2 in my setup and I couldn't get sound.

Setting it to use the AWE64 resulted in no sound whatsoever. Setting it to GUS caused it to freeze. And it looks like settings I have my ESS1688 set to aren't available in the Turrican 2 sound config.

I've also got a weird situation where the 1.0 floppy version of TFX uses my CT1740 sb16 for music and the awe64 for SFX and since the game autodetects you cant change it.

That's the same thing I noticed with Wolfenstein 3D. Uses one card for FM music and effects, and the other for digital audio.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-02-11, 05:28:

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-02-09, 07:15:

Mainly Turrican 2 and Inner Worlds are giving me grief ,

Tested Turrican 2 in my setup and I couldn't get sound.

Setting it to use the AWE64 resulted in no sound whatsoever. Setting it to GUS caused it to freeze. And it looks like settings I have my ESS1688 set to aren't available in the Turrican 2 sound config.

Turrican 2 requires using the HDMA channel if the SB16/AWE is going to be used for sound.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-02-11, 06:05:

Turrican 2 requires using the HDMA channel if the SB16/AWE is going to be used for sound.

yes, I was about to also write this
the game is great as expected but it also is super picky for some reason - I've seen people not being able to run it even with original SB/SBPRO cards

keropi wrote on 2023-02-11, 06:55:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-02-11, 06:05:

Turrican 2 requires using the HDMA channel if the SB16/AWE is going to be used for sound.

yes, I was about to also write this
the game is great as expected but it also is super picky for some reason - I've seen people not being able to run it even with original SB/SBPRO cards

Yeah with the gus it will freeze if you don't initialise the awe64 , if you do the game will run but the joystick will freak out, if you leave the joystick unplugged the game will seem to work but then lock up after a set period of time.

I get no sound with my sb16 in sb16 mode , the only way to get it working is to select my sb16 as a sb pro then it works , honestly the games a massive pain , it requires a boot disk to even have enough conventional memory to run. Shame since its a bloody good game.

I got sound working in Turrican 2!

After some more troubleshooting, I discovered what the problem was.

Just prior to testing Turrican 2, I had decided to clean up and organize my AUTOEXEC.BAT file. The GUS Extreme setup program had inserted lines into the AUTOEXEC.BAT file including the @ symbol in front of each line to prevent displaying each line during boot up. Since I use "@ECHO OFF" at the beginning of my AUTOEXEC file, those @ symbols seemed superfluous and I removed them.

One of the lines used by the GUS Exteme's initialization is setting the BLASTER environment variable. Removing the @ symbol in front of that SET BLASTER line caused the CTCM driver used by the AWE64 to overwrite that line. It looks like the CTCM driver scans the AUTOEXEC.BAT file automatically and replace the SET BLASTER line with whatever the settings are used in the CTCM config.

This resulted in the GUS Extreme not initializing because it was trying to use the same settings for the ESS1688F chip as was assigned to the AWE64.

Using those settings in Turrican 2 resulted in no sound being played.

After noticing this I replaced the SET BLASTER environment variable with the prior settings for the GUS Extreme's ESS1688F chip including the "@" symbol. This prevented the CTCM initialization from overwriting this variable, thus allowing the GUS Extreme to properly initialize.

I retested Turrican 2 choosing SB 16 and using the corresponding settings for the AWE64 and it worked! I also retested it using the Gravis Ultrasound and that too worked, albeit with some audio issues likely owing to the lack of 100% compatibility which is a known limitation with that game anyway. However, I still don't have an option to use the settings for the ESS1688F chip on the GUS Extreme, since I'm using address 230h which it won't let me select.

I also double checked other games and everything else still seems to be working.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-02-11, 06:05:

Turrican 2 requires using the HDMA channel if the SB16/AWE is going to be used for sound.

I had tried that but was still getting no sound. Turns out the issue as written above was the CTCM initialization program (I'm assuming) overwriting the BLASTER environment variable used by the GUS Extreme initialization for the ESS1688F chipset which in turn seemed to cause everything to fail.

Fixing that issue and I was able to get sound in Turrican 2 both with the AWE64 and the GUS.

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-02-11, 11:48:

I get no sound with my sb16 in sb16 mode , the only way to get it working is to select my sb16 as a sb pro then it works , honestly the games a massive pain , it requires a boot disk to even have enough conventional memory to run. Shame since its a bloody good game.

I was able to get it working with normal boot, although I did have to disable EMM386 and some other drivers (e.g. CD-ROM) to free up enough memory to run it.

There is no "ideal setup" without an AWE32 that can add chorus & reverb to real OPL3.

There, I said it! 😀

But seriously, I love adding chorus & reverb to OPL music, it simply elevates AdLib music to a whole another level (that's the reason why I added this feature DOSBox Staging myself). Of course, I can do that on my external digital Yamaha mixer too, but using the AWE32 is way cooler 😀

Here we go, I think the cabling turned out quite alright.

Rincewind42 wrote on 2023-03-05, 10:16:

Here we go, I think the cabling turned out quite alright. […]
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Here we go, I think the cabling turned out quite alright.

Very nice , your cable management skills are far better than mine 😆

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-01-20, 12:21:

The only reason for using two sound cards in this case is for getting around the MPU-401 stuttering issues (Type 2 hanging note bug isn't much of a big deal IMO) that the AWE32 has while at the same time, getting better 16-bit mixing support in DOS programs where there is no "native" support for ESS sound card. I do also have that kind of "redundant" setup for that reason.

BTW, "Semi-PnP" is a made-up term. The AWE32 CT3900 is just a sound card that is capable of configuring the rest of the resources thru the SB I/O address without using the PnP BIOS routines at all.

My near-ultimate setup is a MusicQuest Clone combined with a CT900+Dreamblaster. I have a external physical switch that changes the MIDI port on the MusicQuest, so I can use the AWE for Midi for games that are fixed to using 330 (AWE midi or Dreamblaster, all external midi devices are driven by MusicQuest). However, I often swap the CT3900 out for other cards, e.g. currently have the Telewave Audio 32 which has its own onboard midi, genuine OPL3, and perfect digital sound, and easy initialization. This setup is close to my ultimate setup. The only thing I miss from the AWE32 is PC speaker in, the Dreamblaster, and being able to choose soundfonts (although is not there is not much choice of soundbanks). Other cards I use include various "good" SB16s (e.g. CT2230), SB Pro2 (just sounds perfect in some games), various cards with inbuilt midi (opti/crystal/ess) for fun, etc. But having the MusicQuest take midi out of the equation makes life a lot simpler, and more fun 😁