First of all, thanks to the author and to everyone who contributed to this great project.
I tried SBEMU for the first time today, on my PC with Intel 945G @ICH7 and two cards, onboard Realtek AC97 (ALC882) and Creative SB 128 PCI CT4810 (5580).
Interestingly, sbemu recognizes SB card as an Ensoniq ES1373, even though the card has the markings I listed above.

The Realtek onboard card worked nicely, I tested Wolfenstein3d and Doom for a short time, which works just as it should.
Unfortunately, my Creative SB crashes during the initialization of sbemu.exe, with always the same error output, as in the picture.

I also tested with the onboard card turned off, changed the IRQ settings in the BIOS, but no luck.
I know the ICH7 chipset has not been thoroughly tested, but these are my experiences, if anyone can confirm this or give any suggestions, it would be very helpful.
For now, I have only tested in plain DOS 7, from Windows 98se, and I plan to try it on FreeDOS as well.
I didn't try it with QUEMM, only with the default JEMM memory manager.

retrofan011 wrote on 2023-06-01, 19:55:

First of all, thanks to the author and to everyone who contributed to this great project. I tried SBEMU for the first time today […]
Show full quote

First of all, thanks to the author and to everyone who contributed to this great project.
I tried SBEMU for the first time today, on my PC with Intel 945G @ICH7 and two cards, onboard Realtek AC97 (ALC882) and Creative SB 128 PCI CT4810 (5580).
Interestingly, sbemu recognizes SB card as an Ensoniq ES1373, even though the card has the markings I listed above.

The Realtek onboard card worked nicely, I tested Wolfenstein3d and Doom for a short time, which works just as it should.
Unfortunately, my Creative SB crashes during the initialization of sbemu.exe, with always the same error output, as in the picture.

I also tested with the onboard card turned off, changed the IRQ settings in the BIOS, but no luck.
I know the ICH7 chipset has not been thoroughly tested, but these are my experiences, if anyone can confirm this or give any suggestions, it would be very helpful.
For now, I have only tested in plain DOS 7, from Windows 98se, and I plan to try it on FreeDOS as well.
I didn't try it with QUEMM, only with the default JEMM memory manager.

welcome to the jemmex hell nightmare bugs 😁

btw, what SB card do you have? try to swap PCI slot, try to change the IRQ settings on FDAUTO.BAT with /i5 and the type with /t3

retrofan011 wrote on 2023-06-01, 19:55:

I tried SBEMU for the first time today, on my PC with Intel 945G @ICH7 and two cards, onboard Realtek AC97 (ALC882) and Creative SB 128 PCI CT4810 (5580).
Interestingly, sbemu recognizes SB card as an Ensoniq ES1373, even though the card has the markings I listed above.
The Realtek onboard card worked nicely, I tested Wolfenstein3d and Doom for a short time, which works just as it should.

SBEMU's (or rather MPXPLAY's) internal name for the CT5580 seems to be ES1373 for some reason but it treats all of the ES1371/1371/CT5880 identically anyway.
The Realtek ALC882 is actually an HDA codec, not AC97, as the output of SBEMU /SCL shows.
If the onboard ICH7 HD audio controller works fine, then just use it, there's no need to use the SB 128 PCI for SBEMU. The HDA codec should be higher quality than the AC97 in the SB 128 (assuming your motherboard routes the audio away from noise sources, etc.). If you do want to keep the SB 128 in the system anyway, use /SC2 to use the ICH7 instead.

Some comments, i already all thread history..

1) First is really breakdown, we wanted this for years, great breakdown, great start, but..
I understand that all now want to run native Dos games on there shiny new HW, but as you see here there are lots of other compatibility problems.. and after initial hype would be gone, i dunno who much people will happy with small compatibility percentace, because so far i so here teste like ~40 most common suspects games. You dont want to hear it maybe, but its month from last release, its already sort of fading.. I see good use case on some older machines, which are not fast enough to run more demanding games in Dosbox.
Make compatibility good would take years probably. Because if you will not reach some treshold with compatibility, who would like to check first compatibility matrix and after boot into Dos to play, people usually just run OS.. and after based on their mood run some games.
2) We will not fix here all too fast CPU, Videocards, UEFI problems here.. There are some partly working work around, which probably also will get only better. Lets not be too greedy and other hand dont be lazy make sure that game is running on machine, without any sound card, before reporting problem with SB-EMU.
3) Such really need some online compatibility online spread sheet matrix linked on project page. This time someone else could make it..
4) Most of the people with modern machines, Mainboars actually have Realtek HD codecs, very few unlucky that Creative Core3D.
5) Some games will not start just because of JEMM, QEMM, its just additional source of bugs (most people still using MS-DOS, because of Freedos bugs, so they dont even report them..). Yamaha DSMA.Exe which is probably doing similar thing supports EMM386. Its possible to make patch to add port trapping into EMM386?
6) Could SB-EMU fix sound in Dos Vmware or Virtualbox machines? This could be other great use case. VmM have already great AC97 / intel HD support, Win9x sound drivers, but almost nothing for Dos - SB emulation is joke. Well Vmware has some very experimental support - FM or FX.. but not both. SB-EMU could maybe fix it.. and create real alternative to Dosbox, all virtual machines using same virtual HW, no zillions of HW variants..
7) my Dos compatibility on fast machines matrix, it could help to make game working, there is lots of knowledge how to make which game working on modern - ~2005-2013 HW https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VKadO … of=true&sd=true
On Vogons library is my Dos games demos (107 games) testing package: http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=1 … &menustate=60,0

mgoulart wrote on 2023-04-28, 15:32:

Greetings, […]
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Greetings,

I'm using SBEMU in my thin client (HP t5570) it's working fantastic in some games. But I'm facing a problem when I try to play network games.
My HP has a Broadcom B57780 driver and I can play network games (using IPX - IPXODI) sucessfully.

When I try to play network games using SBEMU, all the games that I tested got crashed (Doom, Doom II and Duke Nukem 3D). When I play single player (without load Broadcom drivers and IPXODI) the game works perfectly and when I play multiplayer game (without load SBEMU but loading Broadcom driver and IPXODI) the game works prefectly.

I tried to change IRQ, DMA, High DMA, SB Type, IO, use NOVCPI parameter,... Nothing works... It looks like that SBEMU and Broadcom drivers or IPXODI have any kind of incompatibility.

Is there any thing that I can test here in order to get network games with sound?

Thank you so much!

Just a quick update!

/T1 is working with Broadcom drivers and IPX!
Some games like Warcraft 2, I needed to change to VSBHDA using type 1.

retrofan011 wrote on 2023-06-01, 19:55:

Unfortunately, my Creative SB crashes during the initialization of sbemu.exe, with always the same error output, as in the picture.

You should try it, Jemmex, with the NOEMS option.

VenomSpark wrote on 2023-06-01, 21:07:

welcome to the jemmex hell nightmare bugs 😁

Jemmex is pretty amazing. If you use it at an attempt to attain Upper Memory, it should be expect that there will be potential for a crash. Did you know people used to configure that area of memory manually? Why would that be? Why couldn't it just be written once, and work all the time everywhere?

You might have better luck with the UMA, if you know what you are doing. This isn't to say that you won't find a bug, in Jemmex. Bugs happen.

Jemmex is not perfect. Neither is EMM386 or Qemm. Both EMM386 and Qemm are dead in the water. If one doesn't work on your machine, it probably never will. Jemmex is still being developed. But you current method of encouraging progress, probably isn't the wisest.

Don't get me wrong, I understand it is frustrating. But please take a moment and consider you contribution, to the whole. Its not like you paid for Jemmex. And no one is paying for potential bugs, to get fixed. Someone fixes those bug, because they finally found the time and motivation.

ruthan wrote on 2023-06-02, 01:27:

Dos games on there shiny new HW, but as you see here there are lots of other compatibility problems.. and after initial hype would be gone, i dunno who much people will happy with small compatibility percentace, because so far i so here teste like ~40 most common suspects games. You dont want to hear it maybe, but its month from last release, its already sort of fading.. I see good use case on some older machines, which are not fast enough to run more demanding games in Dosbox.
Make compatibility good would take years probably. Because if you will not reach some treshold with compatibility, who would like to check first compatibility matrix and after boot into Dos to play, people usually just run OS.. and after based on their mood run some games.

I'm glad to hear that you read though the thread. People really should put in a good effort to avoiding their own negligence.
I can't say that I always have 🙁

I don't know what kind of challenge this project was/is for crazii. But at a certain milestone you need to take a break, marinate on your accomplishment, and decide where to go from here. Sometime, it is nowhere. I can tell you now, crazii's life long coding ambition isn't writing SBEMU full-time.

I know that everyone with, unsupported hardware, can't write the support for it. But no matter who carries on the torch, hardware support data will help. The problem is getting that data, from someone that has no clue what they are looking for; or where to find it. A "reliable" matrix of current supported/unsupported devices, with the required hardware data included, would surely be inspiring. But no one should be fooled into thinking that the hardest part is then done. The next issue is, once someone has gained insight in to finding "actually" useful information, they are only a few steps away from understanding why/how that information is needed or applies. Then, since they don't have to write SBEMU from scratch, they aren't too far from being able to see how similar data has been applied, in supported devices. Twist that arm just a little further and you could be asking people, on a coding forum, what you need to change to get your code working.

Your idea of a game matrix is very good. Some lone hack could be searching up info on their favorite retro game. Only to find that there is no known work around, when using it with SBEMU. That may mean that it is now only a couple of weekends away from being supported.

But what I like most about your idea, is that common issues and known work arounds would be included. That way people can realize that the game itself has never to be resolved bugs. Too easily do people blame Freedos, Jemmex, or SBEMU. We are talking about Dos and things can get tricky. Sometimes your video device (or monitor) does not support that mode. Sometimes, the computer is too fast. There are plenty of things that can go wrong. It can be hard to support users, in areas related to gaming. Often they are looking to play, not work it out. But who doesn't know what that is like? We've all been there, in one way or another. Your matrix would help there, more then with just SBEMU. There is probably already a Dos game work around cheat sheet out there, somewhere. I just needs SBEMU applied to it.

jtchip wrote on 2023-06-01, 23:13:

SBEMU's (or rather MPXPLAY's) internal name for the CT5580 seems to be ES1373 for some reason but it treats all of the ES1371/1 […]
Show full quote

retrofan011 wrote on 2023-06-01, 19:55:

I tried SBEMU for the first time today, on my PC with Intel 945G @ICH7 and two cards, onboard Realtek AC97 (ALC882) and Creative SB 128 PCI CT4810 (5580).
Interestingly, sbemu recognizes SB card as an Ensoniq ES1373, even though the card has the markings I listed above.
The Realtek onboard card worked nicely, I tested Wolfenstein3d and Doom for a short time, which works just as it should.

SBEMU's (or rather MPXPLAY's) internal name for the CT5580 seems to be ES1373 for some reason but it treats all of the ES1371/1371/CT5880 identically anyway.
The Realtek ALC882 is actually an HDA codec, not AC97, as the output of SBEMU /SCL shows.
If the onboard ICH7 HD audio controller works fine, then just use it, there's no need to use the SB 128 PCI for SBEMU. The HDA codec should be higher quality than the AC97 in the SB 128 (assuming your motherboard routes the audio away from noise sources, etc.). If you do want to keep the SB 128 in the system anyway, use /SC2 to use the ICH7 instead.

Thanks for the clarification and advice, I just set the onboard card as default with the /sc2 switch.
Also, I would like to ask for help with a program that I care a lot about, but unfortunately it crashes on startup with my onboard ICH7 HD.
Its a ZX Spectrum emulator running in pure DOS and this is the only way I can get sound.
If anyone can take a look to see if it can work with SBEMU in any way, I would greatly appreciate it.
The emulator is freeware and is in the attachment.
I really like to make it fully functional with sound, partly for nostalgic reasons, but also because it has some unique features compared to the Windows versions.

In the meantime I made it!
setpvi.exe do the trick and everything start to work.
Tested also GP2, work flawlessly.
From dozen games I tried, only Terminal Velocity stuck with "Loading sound driver..." message, altough I can hear test sound in setup.

Thank you @crazii!

Such an amazing project. It will bring literally tons of old hardware back to life. Kudos to you, my friend!

ruthan wrote on 2023-06-02, 01:27:

6) Could SB-EMU fix sound in Dos Vmware or Virtualbox machines? This could be other great use case. VmM have already great AC97 / intel HD support, Win9x sound drivers, but almost nothing for Dos - SB emulation is joke. Well Vmware has some very experimental support - FM or FX.. but not both. SB-EMU could maybe fix it.. and create real alternative to Dosbox, all virtual machines using same virtual HW, no zillions of HW variants..

VirtualBox does SB16 emulation out of the box and it kind of works (Doom SFX, for example) but DOS support is not great. "It is there" but it's not gaming oriented.

There's also @javispedro1's VMusic - OPL3, EMU8K and MPU-401 for VirtualBox (Linux hosts only) which I highly recommend. It works flawlessly, albeit as stated before, DOS support on Virtualbox is not great for gaming. For trackers and midi playing your experience is probably going to be satisfactory.

L4MD4 wrote on 2023-06-02, 05:23:

I don't know what kind of challenge this project was/is for crazii. But at a certain milestone you need to take a break, marinate on your accomplishment, and decide where to go from here. Sometime, it is nowhere. I can tell you now, crazii's life long coding ambition isn't writing SBEMU full-time.

There is difference between nice "technology demo" and real great projects with wider audience.. and its all about effort. Yes you need some superstar developer at the start, but after its more about endless testing and small improvements, some hard work.
Dosbox is great but there is zillion hours in it, i guess same amount of work load we would now all would have native in Dos, with working sound and universal Vesa drivers and working networking and more compatible memory management.
PCem also needed lots of time or still has some major bugs and ended half dead last release is 2,5years old.. , but 86Box seem as some its fork to continue (im not sure, im lazy to search for details).

L4MD4 wrote on 2023-06-02, 05:23:

Your idea of a game matrix is very good. Some lone hack could be searching up info on their favorite retro game. Only to find that there is no known work around, when using it with SBEMU. That may mean that it is now only a couple of weekends away from being supported.
But what I like most about your idea, is that common issues and known work arounds would be included.

Yeah matrix will not just work, it needs some good "admin" work to ensure quality of reports.. and removing not valid information and analysis based on results, to find out there could be problem why its not working for some people

Endless list of HW configurations.. yeah, but it could be maybe avoided..
For me there is still crucial unanswered question, if project supports properly virtual machines.. If it does great, we can ensure that SBE-mode is working fine with list of games and which configurations it needs as baseline, we can even make some testing game demos package preconfigured to just run..
After that test the same package with real HW and starting to find out why is not something working.. its SB-EMU bug with some physical HW soundcard, or problem of some Dos configuration, other HW compatibility problem.

ruthan wrote on 2023-06-02, 12:00:

Yeah matrix will not just work, it needs some good "admin" work to ensure quality of reports.. and removing not valid information and analysis based on results, to find out there could be problem why its not working for some people

You are right. Good ideas begin and die in seconds. Establishing a kind of Dos/Game(application)/Wiki/Database has value for many people, at a base level. If that was started, or already exists somewhere, that would have a better chance of surviving. Then DosBox, SBEMU, VIrtualBox, Win9x, etc. tips/tutorials could start being worked in. But as you say, someone has to maintain it. There needs to be ways to submit/discus information. Aiming at an already Dos oriented platform (time established) probably makes sense.

Because nobody responded, i tried it Virtual box..
i used existing MSDos/ Windows 98 virtual. added additional Menu Item for SBEMU.. In virtual box set sound card to AC97.. used SB emu, card was found.. and sound and music is working in Vbox.. Im not fully sure about game speed and sound latency but SB emu is working with Virtualbox that is good..
Update: Duke3D/Quake are fine too and there speed is right. Warcraft 2 - Sound card, it cant detect SB16 but SB is fine for FX, for music SB16 is fine.

As usually i hit other Vbox problems, it has some strange problem with FileWizzard and Dos Navigator, keyboard always starts to behave funny in these after some time (TAB key is stopping to work).. But its maybe because im using quite a lot utilities in my configs and autoexecs..

I found some old Jemmex.exe line which i used, maybe it could be better:
Jemmex.exe 32768 NOVME A20Method:Fast SB SPLIT RAM VERBOSE

Next step would be trie Vmware.. its usually better for DOS than Vbox..

WIP Compatibility:

Working (Overall Virtual machine gaming, not just sound):
Duke3D
Quake
Warcraft 1 - but scrolling and mouse are super fast, to it needs additional slowdown utility
Warcraft 2 - but scrolling and mouse are super fast, to it needs additional slowdown utility
Battle arena Toshinden demo - again it needs some slowdown utility..
MDk demo
NHL97 - sound are working but there is sometimes so unwanted additional noise effect
Descent 1 - need some slowdown utility..

Not Working (Overall machine gaming, not just sound):
Ishar1 - very hard one, some hardcoded SB code.. JEMMEX error on start, even before sound menu..
Dungeon Master 2 demo - JEMMEX crash
NHL93 - sound and music - a bit broken, logo, but after black screen and only music playing..
Carmageddon - sound is working bad game time counter is like 5 times faster than should be..

I had some beginners problem.. i always get stuck on such things.. but maybe im not alone..

I had in autoexec line:
C:\Drivers\SBEMU\jload QPIEMU.dll
It was failling - JLoad QPIEMU.dll cannot be open error.. i had to add full patch to QPIEMU.dll too..
C:\Drivers\SBEMU\jload C:\Drivers\SBEMU\QPIEMU.dll
I had no more space in my config to add other SBEMU directly to PATH i has 256 chars limit on DOS 7 and 128 on Dos 6..
But i would expected that jload would be clever enough to search this file in own directory! its not and its not user friendly..

I also dont get why that *.dll file is even needed, that it is doing,? It seems that emulation is working without it.. Probably that OPL thing,but 1 line of comment about it would not hurt (QPIemu.txt is in Jemmerx package but not in SB-EMU emu one..).. And that name using something named *.Dll in DOS is very akward, im sure that it probably renamed to anything, but why is named .dll?

There is a github issues page, use it.

ruthan wrote on 2023-06-02, 19:17:

I had some beginners problem.. i always get stuck on such things.. but maybe im not alone.. […]
Show full quote

I had some beginners problem.. i always get stuck on such things.. but maybe im not alone..

I had in autoexec line:
C:\Drivers\SBEMU\jload QPIEMU.dll
It was failling - JLoad QPIEMU.dll cannot be open error.. i had to add full patch to QPIEMU.dll too..
C:\Drivers\SBEMU\jload C:\Drivers\SBEMU\QPIEMU.dll
I had no more space in my config to add other SBEMU directly to PATH i has 256 chars limit on DOS 7 and 128 on Dos 6..
But i would expected that jload would be clever enough to search this file in own directory! its not and its not user friendly..

I also dont get why that *.dll file is even needed, that it is doing,? It seems that emulation is working without it.. Probably that OPL thing,but 1 line of comment about it would not hurt (QPIemu.txt is in Jemmerx package but not in SB-EMU emu one..).. And that name using something named *.Dll in DOS is very akward, im sure that it probably renamed to anything, but why is named .dll?

for first part, I suggest just put all your SBEMU files directly on main root of C:\ and not inside any folder, so that you just add the lines jload, sbemu ecc. without any directories. At least this is how works for me.

VenomSpark wrote on 2023-06-02, 20:17:

for first part, I suggest just put all your SBEMU files directly on main root of C:\ and not inside any folder, so that you just add the lines jload, sbemu ecc. without any directories. At least this is how works for me.

My fixed line is working, its just not intuitive..

Vmware..
I set machine for Win98.. so its using ES1371 sound device.. when SB-emu is loaded, last line, im getting some brutal VM crash.. I experimented with JEMMEX line parameters used it eveb without them too, it not helped.

Used audio driver supposed to be possible through *.vmx file edit:
sound.virtualDev = "es1371"
sound.virtualDev = "hdaudio"
etc.. I dunno all possible values, there is sb16 experimental too..

Vmware workstation, With HDaudio on 9900K CPU.. no more crash.. SBemu is able to find Hdaudio device, see picture.. All tested with IRQ5, im quite sure that some older games, especially older ones could run with IRQ7.. because it was original SB IRQ, if im not wrong..

But Doom is not running.. its stuck on this message:
SB isn't responding at p=0x220,i=5, d=1

But there are other related settings for sound in *.vmx file like sound.pciSlotNumber = "XX" etc..

Update(WIP):
- compatibility sheet migrated to my online Dos sound card on fast machines spread sheet, first sheet, collumn Y+Z (at least now) - column name "Vmware workstation 17+ SB-Emu, Sound blaster emulator +Wmware set to HDaudio in *.vmx file by sound.virtualDev = "hdaudio" + JEMMEX,IRQ5"
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VKadO … of=true&sd=true

Working games (Overall virtual machine, no just sound..)
Duke3D - sound setup is able to detect sound card and play the sound, but not music - when test is executed no error, but nothing is playing, so its not entirely dead end..
In game - sound and music is playing fine.. but music is silent even on max setup 255 volume, all SB-EMu volume settings are default..
MDKdemo
Prehistoric 2
Quake
Q1Dos port
Q2Dos port - 1280x1024, in software renderer its still fast enough
H2DOS - Hexen 2 port
Toshinden demo - some slowdown utility is needed..
Albion - sound is working, but mouse behavior is problematic..
Heretic 1 - interesting its that its Doom 1 or 2 engine, but maybe later implemetation and Doom 1 is not working..
Doom2 -
Husita Demo - sound are ok, im not sure if demo even has some music..
Spellcross demo
Warcraft1 - it has not Virtualbox.. too fast scrolling problem, game speed right. On game exit HDPMI: fata exit 0005..
Carmageddon - time counter, could be twice as faster, im not sure, but its way better than Virtualbox, playble..
Descent 1 - sound, music and rendering is fine, but game is super fast.. and it would need some slowdown utility
NHL97 - sound are working but there is sometimes so unwanted additional noise effect
Raptor

Not working games, overall virtual machine not just sound -Bad news:
Warcraft 2 setup - FX card detected, but during test JemmEX: expecion OC occured at CS:EIP=039D"000012A, ERRC=000000 machine crash.. Music test is fine.
GODs - quite suprise that such game is working at all.., but after while sound is lost in some game situation
Doom1 - stuck on SB init, interesting is that with Virtualbox is working, so HDA audio impelemention has to be slighly different.. Doom2 is working.
Zdemo - working but very silent.. so im marking it as not working
NHL93 - sound its working, i can play the game, but bottom screen stats graphics is broken..
Screamer 2 demo - sound card autodetection machine freeze..
Ishar1 - better than in virtualbox not crash and some sound effect at the start, after its way too silent or broken.. probably broken, but i expected nothing, i this game written for original isa SB..
Dungeon master 2 demo - setup.exe execution crash whole virtual machine hard
Abuse - setup can detect midi device, there is just MPU option not working, sound card detection is fine, but stuck on execution Exception OE in ring 0000 and noise sound..
Ishar 3 - music only not sound effects

Other advantages of Vmware:
- no keyboard problems as Vbox and Qemu, filemanagers are running fine.. More compatible VGA card and less too fast game problem than Vbox..
- i can push Quake 2 (Q2DOS) 1280x1024 with software renderer fast enough, no chance for such speed with Dosbox or PCem, there is clearly Virtual machine winner, well expect OpenGL on emulated Voodoo cards, but it would be slower, but better looking..
- on some super modern machine can virtual machine provide higher compatibility than physical one and less hassle to setup.. I mean modern video card would be used less compatible that emulated one and slower for DOS, more memory conflicts to avoid from roms, using secondary videocard is hassle to and only some MB manufactors have switch for primary videocard slot..
- much easier to debug for, no zillion HW variants, bios issues.. you can just share you modern desktop through Teamview/Anydesk to you friend a let it debug it for you on the fly..
- faster boot, it can boot in like 5 secs to fully setup DOS enviroment with lots of utilities.. Try it no physical machine it takes like 30sec usually.
- multitasking i mean, you can play in the second Windows, monitor you can write the modes for more complex games..
- no noisy CD /DVD roms
- no noisy old machine, or need to have space for them..

Vmware Disadvantage:
- is yeah you have to pay to it, but im using it for work and if you are fine with some questionable origin cheap keys from online keys shop or old versions, its not expensive.. Some old Vmplayer versions were for free too and i doubt that Dos / Win9x implementation changed.. There is also trial to test.

I can push compatibility a bit further if someone will help me with better JEMMEX setting for some yet not working games im using this:
DEVICEHIGH=C:\Drivers\JEMM\JEMMEX.EXE 32768 NOVME A20METHOD:FAST SB SPLIT RAM VERBOSE\
Its fine for some games, but im quite sure that wrong for others.. its that is normal in Dos..