VOGONS


First post, by Lazer42

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I was hesitant to make a new post on a general topic that's been discussed so many times, but in the end I've not come to much of a conclusion reading prior stuff.

Long story short is that I'm trying to find a sound card, or even a combination, that will work for my setup, which is a SS7 system with a DOS/Win3.1 boot and a Win98SE boot.

There's an ESS 1938S on the motherboard which I couldn't get to work in Win3.1 so a few years back I had gotten an SB16 CT2230. This seemed fine until I encountered and learned about the single cycle DMA bug. I replaced it with an Aztech Sound Galaxy II 16 Pro 2316R which I chose because I had the same basic thing back in the 90s under the Reveal brand. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to play nicely with WIn98 and I can't at all get the MIDI/Game port to work in 98. It is also very susceptible to having its mixer settings changed by some games to the point that it can be pretty problematic. Just this week I came across a really helpful post here where someone had posted the correct drivers to get the ESS 1938S working in Windows 3.1, but after actually setting that up and using it for a while the FM synth is just a deal breaker. In some ways it's similar to an OPL3, but in many others I find it really far off and unpleasant. On the other hand, everything else about it was spectacular and honestly way, way cleaner and better sounding than any other vintage card I've ever experienced. Crucially, I'm not just talking about noise floor here but artifacts, distortion, etc.

I've also tried doing dual sound cards. The on-board ESS doesn't seem to allow me to use either of the other cards simultaneously, but I can get the Aztech and SB16 running at the same time. I've experimented heavily with that, trying to come up with a way to use one as a "primary" card and the other as a "backup" for anything that causes popping or is just incompatible with the SB16. I'd tried running the line out of one to the line in of the other but the biggest problem has been that some programs wind up outputting to both cards simultaneously, especially the FM, so it causes problems. In some other cases it's also difficult to get the software to use the particular card I want it to, and it does require some Port/DMA/IRQ setups that are a bit less than ideal to make it work. It's also disappointing just how bad both of these sound to me compared to the ESS - other than the FM of course.

I suppose one option may be to get some kind of mixer and just run both cards simultaneously, though that's an expense I'd rather avoid and I'd rather spend the money on a single card that works better all around, though that may be a bit irrational. Still, it wouldn't solve the issue of getting things to use the "correct" card or of some of the problems I've had with the Aztech mixer changing - and moreover, at least thus far I've found that what I'd much rather do is set the SB16 as the main card and let the Aztech be there as a backup for compatibility, BUT most of the games with compatibility issues are hard coded to use 220/5/1 meaning that I need to let the Aztech take those values and give the SB16 240, something which basically makes the Aztech the primary card because of how many programs default to 220.

This post is really just a general shot in the dark for suggestions, whether configuration-wise, cards to look into, etc..

Basically, I want something that works completely in both DOS/3.1 and 98SE, that has a real OPL3 or at least a much better imitation than what I mentioned above, and doesn't have major issues like the single cycle DMA popping. I'd prefer a single card but would be happy to combine a couple IF it worked - including combining the ones I already have if there is a way to make it work. Anyone have any suggestions?

Reply 1 of 12, by stanwebber

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try a different ess or aztech card. i had success with both an ess688 and azt-2320 in my win98se build. both have a yamaha opl3 and are supported by unisound.com for dos. the azt-2320 has both wdm & vxd drivers in win9x (not sure about the es688). the azt-2320 is pnp with a real mpu-401 while the ess688 is non-pnp with an emulated mpu-401 requiring a tsr in dos.

an azt-2320 (with or without modem) is about the cheapest isa soundcard you can buy on ebay these days.

Reply 2 of 12, by kolderman

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Pretty sure ymf718 is you're best bet. Unless you can find a rare as hell ess with genuine opl3. Aztechs are ok but a bit of a pain to configure. The "good" sb16 are going to be good enough for most people, especially as you can offload midi to a hardMPU or similar. There are some crystal boards to with genuine opl3 which are good to find. Trying to split adlib/sb between two isa carde that support both is usually painful and not worth the bother.

Reply 3 of 12, by stanwebber

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point taken...before unisound.com the azt-2320 drivers were impossible to get working in dos on a pnp aware bios (maybe a non-pnp bios would fare better with the intel pnp configuration manager).

my current isa card is a crystal cs4232 and it is quite impressive all-around so far, but you will have to find one with a yamaha opl3--fm on mine is provided by a dream sam9233 wavetable chip. i believe the aopen aw32 / acer magic s23 is one such board (may be off on the model numbers).

Reply 4 of 12, by Lazer42

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kolderman wrote on 2023-06-11, 01:55:

Pretty sure ymf718 is you're best bet. Unless you can find a rare as hell ess with genuine opl3. Aztechs are ok but a bit of a pain to configure. The "good" sb16 are going to be good enough for most people, especially as you can offload midi to a hardMPU or similar. There are some crystal boards to with genuine opl3 which are good to find. Trying to split adlib/sb between two isa carde that support both is usually painful and not worth the bother.

Fortunately I have not had any trouble getting the Aztech to work other than in Windows 98, but I actually managed to get it working in Win98 last night after realizing that Windows wasn't recognizing it via PnP and setting it up with legacy drivers.

This confuses me a bit because by pure coincidence I today came across this site (https://dosdays.co.uk/topics/Manufacturers/aztech.php) which identifies my card as something different than what I had thought. It was originally identified by the ebay seller as a Sound Galaxy Pro 16 II and I accepted this since the drivers worked for DOS/Win 3.1. According to this site, though, its FCC ID matches the Multimedia Pro 16 IIB-3d PnP. It also matches other characteristics as reported there, for instance it has the 2316R rather than the chip reported for the 16 Pro II. Also, SoftMPU works fine, which the site says should not happen with the 16 Pro II but is expected with the MM Pro 16 IIB 3d PnP. Nevertheless, Win98 reports that it cannot find the sound card and only seems to work by "blindly" pushing sound to proper ports. I will be trying the drivers posted on that site, though, since they are supposedly particular to the MM Pro. We'll see if it works for those I guess.

Also, I'm curious what the 3d is supposed to refer to if this is in fact what the card is. I can find precious little information about most of these Aztech cards out there.

In any case, currently I have the SB16 totally inactive and the Aztech set up for DOS, 3.1, and 98. I'm happy enough with the way it's working for now while I wait for something more ideal to become available down the line. The biggest issue right now is really just what I'd consider poor sound quality in certain situations or for certain games, in particular where they seem to mess with the mixer in ways they didn't with the Sb16. For instance, Epic Pinball and Raptor both appear to boost the volume so that if I look at the volume after exiting it's higher than I'd set it and the sound in those games is a bit distorted as if it's tuned too loud and is clipping (moreso Epic Pinball, but to a lesser degree Raptor). When I would run these with the SB16, it's mixer didn't seem to change when running the game. It's too bad I can't figure out a way to prevent this. It all sounds the same as I remember from when I was younger using my Reveal SC400, which is more or less the same card as I have now.

I may be interested in the Orpheus II if the financial situation works out whenever it is that they get the next run going. Alternatively, I think a SB Pro 2 may be the best vintage option if I see one turn up for a reasonable price - unless there's some reason I ought to consider it a bad fit for my desired use case?

Reply 5 of 12, by stanwebber

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i'd suggest looking in the windows mixer under 'advanced settings' to toggle the 3d effect on or off. i can't remember if there's an aztech 3d dos utility. if your azt-2316 is pnp and supported, unisound.com can also set the mixer levels for your card. there's also a -nopnp switch that works with some non-pnp cards.

dosdays is a great resource. vogons drivers also has the entire aztech ftp driver site archived.

Reply 6 of 12, by dionb

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AZT2316 is non-PnP and not supported -nopnp, so no Unisound (yet).

PnP issues could well explain the Windows issues with the game port and MIDI - my guess is that some PnP device is being configured onto conflicting resources by Windows. Find that, move it, and it should work. Note that MIDI and game port share the same connector, but are completely different devices so it looks like you have two conflicts.

Reply 7 of 12, by Lazer42

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dionb wrote on 2023-06-12, 10:35:

AZT2316 is non-PnP and not supported -nopnp, so no Unisound (yet).

PnP issues could well explain the Windows issues with the game port and MIDI - my guess is that some PnP device is being configured onto conflicting resources by Windows. Find that, move it, and it should work. Note that MIDI and game port share the same connector, but are completely different devices so it looks like you have two conflicts.

It all does work as long as I direct the drivers to the correct resources since it isn't behaving as PnP. However, what has me confused is that as I noted, the FCC-ID indicates that it is a PnP card.

Reply 8 of 12, by jesolo

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Lazer42 wrote on 2023-06-12, 13:13:
dionb wrote on 2023-06-12, 10:35:

AZT2316 is non-PnP and not supported -nopnp, so no Unisound (yet).

PnP issues could well explain the Windows issues with the game port and MIDI - my guess is that some PnP device is being configured onto conflicting resources by Windows. Find that, move it, and it should work. Note that MIDI and game port share the same connector, but are completely different devices so it looks like you have two conflicts.

It all does work as long as I direct the drivers to the correct resources since it isn't behaving as PnP. However, what has me confused is that as I noted, the FCC-ID indicates that it is a PnP card.

What is the Fcc id of your card?

Reply 9 of 12, by Lazer42

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jesolo wrote on 2023-06-12, 18:02:
Lazer42 wrote on 2023-06-12, 13:13:
dionb wrote on 2023-06-12, 10:35:

AZT2316 is non-PnP and not supported -nopnp, so no Unisound (yet).

PnP issues could well explain the Windows issues with the game port and MIDI - my guess is that some PnP device is being configured onto conflicting resources by Windows. Find that, move it, and it should work. Note that MIDI and game port share the same connector, but are completely different devices so it looks like you have two conflicts.

It all does work as long as I direct the drivers to the correct resources since it isn't behaving as PnP. However, what has me confused is that as I noted, the FCC-ID indicates that it is a PnP card.

What is the Fcc id of your card?

I38-MMSN845

Reply 10 of 12, by jesolo

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Lazer42 wrote on 2023-06-12, 21:21:
jesolo wrote on 2023-06-12, 18:02:
Lazer42 wrote on 2023-06-12, 13:13:

It all does work as long as I direct the drivers to the correct resources since it isn't behaving as PnP. However, what has me confused is that as I noted, the FCC-ID indicates that it is a PnP card.

What is the Fcc id of your card?

I38-MMSN845

I've attached the official drivers that were released by Aztech Labs.
Take note that no official software packages were released for Windows 95 (only for Windows 3.1x).
They did release Windows 95 drivers (which are included).
However, most of the functionality is included in Windows 95 (like your volume control).

Attachments

  • Filename
    Pro16II.zip
    File size
    4.48 MiB
    Downloads
    36 downloads
    File comment
    Sound Galaxy Pro 16II driver set
    File license
    Public domain

Reply 11 of 12, by Lazer42

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jesolo wrote on 2023-06-12, 21:41:
I've attached the official drivers that were released by Aztech Labs. Take note that no official software packages were released […]
Show full quote
Lazer42 wrote on 2023-06-12, 21:21:
jesolo wrote on 2023-06-12, 18:02:

What is the Fcc id of your card?

I38-MMSN845

I've attached the official drivers that were released by Aztech Labs.
Take note that no official software packages were released for Windows 95 (only for Windows 3.1x).
They did release Windows 95 drivers (which are included).
However, most of the functionality is included in Windows 95 (like your volume control).

These are I believe the drivers I was trying to use before because I thought it was a Sound Galaxy Pro 16 II, but according to the DOS Days website that FCC ID (and the photo matches perfectly) is a Multimedia Pro 16 IIB-3d PnP.

Reply 12 of 12, by jesolo

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Lazer42 wrote on 2023-06-12, 21:54:
jesolo wrote on 2023-06-12, 21:41:
I've attached the official drivers that were released by Aztech Labs. Take note that no official software packages were released […]
Show full quote
Lazer42 wrote on 2023-06-12, 21:21:

I38-MMSN845

I've attached the official drivers that were released by Aztech Labs.
Take note that no official software packages were released for Windows 95 (only for Windows 3.1x).
They did release Windows 95 drivers (which are included).
However, most of the functionality is included in Windows 95 (like your volume control).

These are I believe the drivers I was trying to use before because I thought it was a Sound Galaxy Pro 16 II, but according to the DOS Days website that FCC ID (and the photo matches perfectly) is a Multimedia Pro 16 IIB-3d PnP.

I believe Aztech marketed this card as part of a Multimedia bundle as well and might therefore have given it different names, depending on how it was bundled. I noticed that, on the Dosdays download page, I38-MMSN845 is referred to as the Sound Galaxy Pro16 II-3D PnP. Just take note there were two different releases of the Sound Galaxy Pro 16II card. The earlier revision utilised the AZT-1605 chipset, whereas the later one utilised the AZT-2316 chipset.
The drivers I attached appears to match what is on the Dosdays download page. I got mine directly from Aztech's own ftp site.