Proper MT-32 playback requires an MT-32 ROM (samples) and at minimum proper emulation of the LA synthesis capabilities of the MT-32 module. My experience is that anything offering MT-32 combability modes (e.g. sound cards or sound modules) tend to sound pretty bad in comparison to an authentic unit.

Your best bet is either an actual MT-32 module or a hardware emulation unit like the WP32 McCake.

Also, MT-32 support does cover games beyond 1992. For instance the MT-32 is my preferred sound module for the original X-Com which released in 1994.

And no, you can't use an MT-32 for General MIDI. MT-32 and MT-32 compatible units (e.g. CM-32L, CM-64) do not support the General MIDI standard.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-06-21, 15:48:

Proper MT-32 playback requires an MT-32 ROM (samples) and at minimum proper emulation of the LA synthesis capabilities of the MT-32 module. My experience is that anything offering MT-32 combability modes (e.g. sound cards or sound modules) tend to sound pretty bad in comparison to an authentic unit.

Your best bet is either an actual MT-32 module or a hardware emulation unit like the WP32 McCake.

Also, MT-32 support does cover games beyond 1992. For instance the MT-32 is my preferred sound module for the original X-Com which released in 1994.

Yeah, that's what i meant, to buy an actual MT-32 unit, i wanted to know if an MT-32 unit can actually work as a general midi unit too.

iraito wrote on 2023-06-21, 15:52:

Yeah, that's what i meant, to buy an actual MT-32 unit, i wanted to know if an MT-32 unit can actually work as a general midi unit too.

No, it cannot.

The General MIDI standard came out long after the MT-32 was released. Notwithstanding the Roland utility to re-map instruments on an MT-32 to the GM standard.

The closest to a proper sound module that can do both General MIDI and MT-32 playback is a Roland CM-500. But there are a couple issues with that module including that it's based on the newer CM-32L, so might not produce proper playback for games expecting the 'old' MT-32 firmware. There is also the issue of faster vibrato due to a clock timing difference in the CM-500 compared to the earlier MT-32.

If you're on the fence to whether it's worth it, it really depends on how much you play games in that 1988 to early 90s period, especially graphic adventure games. IMHO an MT-32 is worth it for classic Sierra and LucasArts adventure games, plus a number of other titles.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-06-21, 16:01:

No, it cannot. […]
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iraito wrote on 2023-06-21, 15:52:

Yeah, that's what i meant, to buy an actual MT-32 unit, i wanted to know if an MT-32 unit can actually work as a general midi unit too.

No, it cannot.

The General MIDI standard came out long after the MT-32 was released.

The closest to a proper sound module that can do both General MIDI and MT-32 playback is a Roland CM-500. But there are a couple issues with that module including that it's based on the newer CM-32L, so might not produce proper playback for games expecting the 'old' MT-32 firmware. There is also the issue of faster vibrato due to a clock timing difference in the CM-500 compared to the earlier MT-32.

If you're on the fence to whether it's worth it, it really depends on how much you play games in that 1988 to early 90s period, especially graphic adventure games. IMHO an MT-32 is worth it for classic Sierra and LucasArts adventure games, plus a number of other titles.

Isn't there a utility from roland itself that remaps the MT-32 to general midi? i have seen others too.

iraito wrote on 2023-06-21, 16:11:

Isn't there a utility from roland itself that remaps the MT-32 to general midi? i have seen others too.

Actually you're right, I'd forgotten that there was a utility to map the MT-32 instruments to General MIDI.

I haven't tried that myself, so I can't speak to how well it works.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-06-21, 16:17:

iraito wrote on 2023-06-21, 16:11:

Isn't there a utility from roland itself that remaps the MT-32 to general midi? i have seen others too.

Actually you're right, I'd forgotten that there was a utility to map the MT-32 instruments to General MIDI.

I haven't tried that myself, so I can't speak to how well it works.

It sounds like a pretty good deal, gotta be honest, i get to use MT-32 but also general midi when needed while my soundcard suffice sounblaster and OPL3.

I'd be interested to hear how an MT-32 sounds as a GM device.

I tried Googling to see if I could find any examples, but strangely can't find any.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-06-21, 16:44:

I'd be interested to hear how an MT-32 sounds as a GM device.

I tried Googling to see if I could find any examples, but strangely can't find any.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWAnDOX5Xxw&t=102s this should be one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RomeihhbiE0

iraito wrote on 2023-06-21, 16:58:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWAnDOX5Xxw&t=102s this should be one.

That's an interesting comparison. Sounds quite a bit different than the Sound Canvas and XV-2020 modules, which I would expect give the reverse (i.e. MT-32 compatibility mode on a Sound Canvas) also sounds quite different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RomeihhbiE0

That comparison it's not quite clear to me if it's an MT-32 in General MIDI mode, or just using the native MT-32 mode in Space Quest V. I'd suspect probably the latter.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-06-21, 17:45:

That's an interesting comparison. Sounds quite a bit different than the Sound Canvas and XV-2020 modules, which I would expect g […]
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iraito wrote on 2023-06-21, 16:58:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWAnDOX5Xxw&t=102s this should be one.

That's an interesting comparison. Sounds quite a bit different than the Sound Canvas and XV-2020 modules, which I would expect give the reverse (i.e. MT-32 compatibility mode on a Sound Canvas) also sounds quite different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RomeihhbiE0

That comparison it's not quite clear to me if it's an MT-32 in General MIDI mode, or just using the native MT-32 mode in Space Quest V. I'd suspect probably the latter.

Gotta say though, it's a really good GM.

Yeah, that example isn't bad at all.

The real acid test would be trying it with some well known GM soundtracks: Doom, Duke 3D, Warcraft, etc.

On a related note, the XV-2020 is a solid GM unit as well, at least in my experience. Some of the Roland units can be a bit hit or miss, although I suppose that is true of GM modules in general.

The biggest problem with a single MT-32 as a GM device is the lack of full GM compatible 16 Midi channels/parts. A single MT-32 has only 9 parts so it can only use 9 channels maximum at the same time. The Roland supplied GM compatibility SysEx messages associate the MT-32 parts to channels 1-8, 10 (instead of the default 2-10) but this remapping cannot cure the missing 7 channels problem. So for full GM compatibility you would need 2 MT-32 units that are configured properly to listen only on specific channels.
Anyway here is a demonstartion video about how such a dual synth setup would sound with the above mentioned Midi titles (Doom, Duke 3D, Warcraft 2).
The used Munt VSTi uses the Roland supplied GM compatibility SysEx payload internally when it receives a GM Reset message. The 1st synth instance uses channels 1-8, 10 and the 2nd instance uses channels 9, 11-16.
https://youtu.be/5_YNNAPPpsA

Uhm it sounds like one would need both the Mt-32 and the SC-55, as it is for me now i don't mind putting the money together over time and buying both, i have the hardware for them and a love for many specific games that shined on those MIDI synthesizers, i also have an amiga 1200 and the MT-32 was used for some GA that i really old dear too.
From what i understand though, the MT-32 is not really a GM device and surely not worth it being bought 2 times over.

Falcosoft wrote on 2023-06-21, 23:33:

The biggest problem with a single MT-32 as a GM device is the lack of full GM compatible 16 Midi channels/parts. A single MT-32 […]
Show full quote

The biggest problem with a single MT-32 as a GM device is the lack of full GM compatible 16 Midi channels/parts. A single MT-32 has only 9 parts so it can only use 9 channels maximum at the same time. The Roland supplied GM compatibility SysEx messages associate the MT-32 parts to channels 1-8, 10 (instead of the default 2-10) but this remapping cannot cure the missing 7 channels problem. So for full GM compatibility you would need 2 MT-32 units that are configured properly to listen only on specific channels.
Anyway here is a demonstartion video about how such a dual synth setup would sound with the above mentioned Midi titles (Doom, Duke 3D, Warcraft 2).
The used Munt VSTi uses the Roland supplied GM compatibility SysEx payload internally when it receives a GM Reset message. The 1st synth instance uses channels 1-8, 10 and the 2nd instance uses channels 9, 11-16.
https://youtu.be/5_YNNAPPpsA

Damn, I like that. Instrument levels are a bit wild in places (particularly in Duke) but on the whole, quite unique and cool.

Pierre32 wrote on 2023-06-22, 10:35:

Falcosoft wrote on 2023-06-21, 23:33:

The biggest problem with a single MT-32 as a GM device is the lack of full GM compatible 16 Midi channels/parts. A single MT-32 […]
Show full quote

The biggest problem with a single MT-32 as a GM device is the lack of full GM compatible 16 Midi channels/parts. A single MT-32 has only 9 parts so it can only use 9 channels maximum at the same time. The Roland supplied GM compatibility SysEx messages associate the MT-32 parts to channels 1-8, 10 (instead of the default 2-10) but this remapping cannot cure the missing 7 channels problem. So for full GM compatibility you would need 2 MT-32 units that are configured properly to listen only on specific channels.
Anyway here is a demonstartion video about how such a dual synth setup would sound with the above mentioned Midi titles (Doom, Duke 3D, Warcraft 2).
The used Munt VSTi uses the Roland supplied GM compatibility SysEx payload internally when it receives a GM Reset message. The 1st synth instance uses channels 1-8, 10 and the 2nd instance uses channels 9, 11-16.
https://youtu.be/5_YNNAPPpsA

Damn, I like that. Instrument levels are a bit wild in places (particularly in Duke) but on the whole, quite unique and cool.

It sounds good but after you hear the guitar riffs, you know a big chunk is missing from the soundtrack.

Yeah definitely more of a synth sound in their place. And this might be an unpopular opinion, but I actually like that a lot better in the Duke music 😮

Ok, i was able to find an MT-32for a good price and and a RA-50 for a ridiculous price, can i just mod the RA-50 in hardware and use that as a real MT-32?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RomeihhbiE0

That comparison it's not quite clear to me if it's an MT-32 in General MIDI mode, or just using the native MT-32 mode in Space Quest V. I'd suspect probably the latter.

The SQ5 video is using regular MT-32 mode, which ironically is basically the same as the General MIDI soundtrack. SQ5 just sends the GM files to the MT-32, and the patch bank is a mix of default MT-32 instruments and new ones to make the MT-32, well.. General MIDI compatible. 😉

To be honest, I really don't like it and SQ5 is a pretty good example of the MT-32 sounding quite bad in a GM game (although if one used different instruments it could probably sound quite good! One day I'll do this..). In that video in the first 30 seconds you can hear the MT-32 missing notes due to polyphony limitations, too.

Spikey wrote on 2023-06-23, 12:05:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RomeihhbiE0

That comparison it's not quite clear to me if it's an MT-32 in General MIDI mode, or just using the native MT-32 mode in Space Quest V. I'd suspect probably the latter.

The SQ5 video is using regular MT-32 mode, which ironically is basically the same as the General MIDI soundtrack. SQ5 just sends the GM files to the MT-32, and the patch bank is a mix of default MT-32 instruments and new ones to make the MT-32, well.. General MIDI compatible. 😉

To be honest, I really don't like it and SQ5 is a pretty good example of the MT-32 sounding quite bad in a GM game (although if one used different instruments it could probably sound quite good! One day I'll do this..). In that video in the first 30 seconds you can hear the MT-32 missing notes due to polyphony limitations, too.

And that's why i ended buying a roland RA-50 and an SC-55, together for less than 200€ so i was lucky, but if one wants to do it with hardware then it's better to get one for MT-32 and one for GM.