keropi wrote on 2023-07-17, 12:43:

the more things available the better 😀

Sure. For software to support a hardware, the hardware must exists first. The more a type of hardware is available, the more it will be supported (relativizing that here the target is a niche for homebrew).
I have a SAAYM and I'm using it for playing arcade game soundtracks mostly, not to much for playing games (TSOMI mainly) and I'm very happy with it 😁
But I'm also using my legacy soundcards and Orpheus a lot to play music using different MIDI modules. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone to do that.

Jo22 wrote on 2023-07-17, 09:58:

So many new Sound Blaster replicas, AdLib clones and XT motherboard designs, but apparently no interest to develop something new in this regards.
It's as if the DOS community/scene is stuck in the past or something. 🤷‍♂️

I mean, we are, by definition, stuck in the past?
The software and games we run are, well, from the past! 😁

It's simply the fact that Adlib, and then Creative through shady manners, were the ones to set the standard that everyone blindly followed.
If you didn't support their modes, it didn't matter how different and innovative your card was, you'd be unlikely to see software support and no one would buy it.

As for today, the same problem still applies.
I would love more niche cards for playing VGMs and such, but most people simply want to play their old games and run old Windows or other OSes.

As cool as advanced FM synth chips are like the YM2151/2164, 2610, etc., they'll all suffer from the same issues the GUS and similar cards suffered from, they have no appeal outside of more niche, specific use (even though the GUS did at least have some game support).
Meanwhile projects replicating cards with decent software support are popular, because people can use them with a wide variety of software, with them often being cheaper and more easily attainable than the originals.

The frequently used argument is that homebrew games could start using those, but that's wishful thinking with how few new games get released for pure DOS, and I'm sure homebrew devs would also prefer to just support the widely available contemporary hardware and modern clones, over completely new solutions.

Daniël Oosterhuis wrote on 2023-07-17, 13:47:

It's simply the fact that Adlib, and then Creative through shady manners, were the ones to set the standard that everyone blindly followed.

There is bit of going on this regard. AdLib languished before Creative launched the original Sound Blaster card (which enabled the latter to do the well documented stunts years later), where the real success came from integrating the gameport as there were other less known audio hardware for PC that supported digitized sound.

Creative called it the Killer Kard, and that was exactly what it was: AdLib + digitized sound + gameport was exactly the combination gamers wanted.
I also believe it was the first card that supported digital playback via DMA.

keropi wrote on 2023-07-17, 06:41:

I had to google for the card LOL Does it have any gaming value? Any idea how it's software/toys look like? I am very familiar wi […]
Show full quote

Cloudschatze wrote on 2023-07-17, 06:09:

In expanded form (that is, with the 512KB RAM and YSS225 daughterboards), Mediatrix' Audiotrix Pro is arguably a more-complete OPL4 reference architecture than the SW20-PC.

I had to google for the card 🤣
Does it have any gaming value? Any idea how it's software/toys look like?
I am very familiar with the SW-20PC as it happened to get it back in the day but I had no idea that Audiotrix Pro existed and is something different than the other audiotrix 3dXG something something 🤣

I have one. At one point I had the chance to get one with the effects module but cheapest out because it can only be used in Windows..... grrrr. The AudioTrix Pro has regular Sound Blaster support and the wavetable works in DOS as well.

Daniël Oosterhuis wrote on 2023-07-17, 13:47:

As cool as advanced FM synth chips are like the YM2151/2164, 2610, etc., they'll all suffer from the same issues the GUS and similar cards suffered from, they have no appeal outside of more niche, specific use (even though the GUS did at least have some game support).

Along these lines, there were more complex FM synthesis options available on sound cards back in the day (IBM Music Feature), but they failed to catch on back then.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-07-17, 15:20:

Along these lines, there were more complex FM synthesis options available on sound cards back in the day (IBM Music Feature, Adlib Gold...), but they failed to catch on back then.

Wasn't AdLib Gold just the normal 4 operator synthesis that OPL3 had?

Disruptor wrote on 2023-07-17, 16:21:

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-07-17, 15:20:

Along these lines, there were more complex FM synthesis options available on sound cards back in the day (IBM Music Feature, Adlib Gold...), but they failed to catch on back then.

Wasn't AdLib Gold just the normal 4 operator synthesis that OPL3 had?

Yes, that's true. I think I was thinking more in terms of the Adlib Gold's oversampling and "surround" modules re: overall audio output.

But you're correct that in terms of FM synthesis itself, the Adlib Gold was just OPL3.

keropi wrote on 2023-07-17, 06:41:

Cloudschatze wrote on 2023-07-17, 06:09:

In expanded form (that is, with the 512KB RAM and YSS225 daughterboards), Mediatrix' Audiotrix Pro is arguably a more-complete OPL4 reference architecture than the SW20-PC.

Does it have any gaming value?

For quite some time, the Audiotrix Pro was one of the better "all-in-one" gaming cards available. The lack of SBPro digital audio support in DOS can feel limiting, but the card checks most of the desired boxes otherwise, including 16-bit WSS compatibility and a "real OPL" FM synthesizer. Furthermore, the tweaked, Yamaha TG100-based General MIDI sound set is decent, and the MPU implementation is one of the few that fakes intelligent-mode compatibility, making for a complementary pairing with an MT-32 or variant.

On an interesting note, the Audiotrix Pro (and 3D-XG) will sound a MIDI-based "chime" when initialized in DOS, which is unique/fun. The card is also something of a direct successor to the Ad Lib Gold, having been developed by a number of the same engineers.

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-07-17, 14:53:

I have one. At one point I had the chance to get one with the effects module but cheapest out because it can only be used in Windows..... grrrr.

Yes, and no. The effects editor is Windows-based, but settings made/applied in Windows are retained upon exiting to DOS, or until the card is reinitialized. Ideally, a basic ability to apply an effects template from DOS would have been nice. Notwithstanding (and seemingly undocumented besides), reverb is automatically applied to the OPL4 output when a card bearing an effects daughterboard is initialized from DOS, in similitude of the default configuration of a Sound Canvas. Purportedly, the reverb level of the effects daughterboard is also controllable via MIDI CC #91, but I haven't verified this trait.

Ahh, thanks for the info. Makes me even more disappointed that I didn't get one with the effects board.

Jo22 wrote on 2023-07-17, 10:59:

Hm. Now that I think of it..
Wouldn't it be possible to combine two individual OPL3 soundcards?
One at port 220h, the second at 240h?

That's certainly possible. Many of us have an extra OPL3 or clone card around and a free slot to shove it into. Then just run the output into an input on the main card to combine the audio from both. Mixer would have to be adjusted to make the volume levels equivalent.

The question then becomes what to do with it. Furnace tracker allows composing for 2x OPL3 chips (amongst countless other possibilities). Having 12x 4-op channels available for MIDI playback might be good too, with a suitable player. Has anyone made a set of GM instrument patches for OPL3 4-op mode?

Datadrainer wrote on 2023-07-17, 10:25:

Like the MediaTrix AudioTrix Pro, it uses a CS4231A, so they are "only" SB compatible, not SB Pro

Don't blame the CS4231 for that; it was a CODEC only, not a controller. It was compatible at a hardware level with the WSS CODEC, but made no attempt to provide compatibility with any standard. That was the responsibility of the controller. The Audiotrix Pro split that responsibility between their custom controller ASIC and a micro-controller that was loaded with firmware when the card was initialised by their tools. It was an impressively complete, well-implemented solution for the time, offering just about all of the good points of the UltraSound or AWE lines (and then some), without the deficiencies. The significant drawback was that a brand-new, fully expanded Audiotrix Pro would put quite a dent in your pocketbook.

Disruptor wrote on 2023-07-17, 16:21:

Wasn't AdLib Gold just the normal 4 operator synthesis that OPL3 had?

There is an important distinction to be made here. It wasn't just OPL3, it was among the very first OPL3 implementations, and it was OPL3 implemented correctly; providing a richer, fuller sound than just about any design that followed. One possible exception was the PAS16, though I have never heard one myself.

It's something of a tangent to this discussion, but I have often wondered what we might have ended up with if the PC world had settled on a single audio standard, instead of trying to create one-size-fits-all audio libraries that failed to truly leverage the capabilities of any one design. If we had truly embraced innovation in PC audio and taught those trying to stifle said innovation a stern financial lesson, we could well have had a much more immersive experience today.

640K!enough wrote on 2023-07-18, 19:34:

It's something of a tangent to this discussion, but I have often wondered what we might have ended up with if the PC world had settled on a single audio standard, instead of trying to create one-size-fits-all audio libraries that failed to truly leverage the capabilities of any one design.

Agreed that these libraries made the FM music just an automated conversion of midi. But I do appreciate the option for randomized or game situation-dependent track switching, as facilitated by the Miles and iMuse sound driver suites. I actually liked that more then any sound related gimmicks that came after.