VOGONS


First post, by Shponglefan

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I'm in the process of rebuilding my 486DX-33 system after its motherboard died and am looking to implement a multi-sound card setup.

My original setup in this machine was a GUS Extreme and Roland SCC-1, which provided SB Pro, GUS Classic and Roland GM sound options.

However, after playing with my five sound card 386 setup, I'd like to include a GoldLib (Adlib Gold clone) in the 486. Unfortunately, early testing demonstrated that the GoldLib and GUS Extreme will not get along. So I'm considering a different setup.

Compatibility with the GoldLib is a challenge due to port address 388h. This rules out any card that I can't configure or disable the FM port address; basically most non-PnP sound cards.

My initial thoughts is basically replicating what I did in the 386, but with the SCC-1 instead of a LAPC-I:

  • Yamaha Audician 32 clone (YMF719)
  • Gravis UltraSound (classic)
  • GoldLib
  • Roland SCC-1

The Yamaha card does get along with the Adlib Gold in my 386 setup, so I'm hoping it will work with the GoldLib. I'm also thinking of filter modding one of those cards to provide a more authentic 'classic' SB Pro digital audio experience.

I may also throw a Sound Blaster AWE32 (PnP) or AWE64 into the mix for SB16 / AWE32 compatibility. Don't know how much use it would get on a 486DX-33, but there are some games that could take advantage of it. It does at least provide another digital audio option besides the Yamaha or GUS.

Thoughts on this build? Any other sound options I should consider?

(I did consider the Orpheus in place of the Yamaha, but since I wanted separate MIDI via the SCC-1, it seemed redundant to have the Orpheus's MIDI interface in the same build.)

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 1 of 10, by carlostex

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Keep this in mind:

AdLib Gold takes the range BASE ADDR + 5 more consecutive addresses.

So if 388 is selected it will take 388/389 for OPL2, 38A is CTRL ADDR, 38B is CTRL DATA, 38C is DSP ADDR and 38D is DSP DATA.

Any other card that will write to 38A to 38D range will fuck up and confuse the hell out of the CTRL chip and MMA chip.

The GF1 GUS cards have the habit of locking up the AdLib ports until they are initialised, so keep that in mind. The GUS ACE has a jumper to disable this behaviour, but the Classic/MAX/Extreme do not so they need to be initialised first, otherwise it will lock out anything at ports 388/389.

I recommend the following:

YMF card at 220,5,1 with OPL2 ports set at 390 or 398;

GoldLib: 388,3,3 - all the games I tried worked fine with IRQ3 and DMA3. I took a look into the AIL drivers and all games that use these drivers will work with any IRQ/DMA config provided you have no conflicts.

GUS: 260,7,7 - make sure you initialise the card before you expect anything to play AdLib sound at 388/389

SCC1 just regular 330h

Reply 2 of 10, by carlostex

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BTW something else I remembered:

My main DOS PC is a Pentium MMX which most of the time is underclocked to 100, so that would guarantee timing issues with the Gold card. My board also has a long ISA bus since I have 6 slots for ISA, so i noticed something interesting.
Despite configuring all the wait states I could into the bus, the MMA timers always failed the tests. I had the Gold card on ISA slot 5, so I moved it to ISA slot 3 and all timing issues went away. Now all tests pass flawlessly everytime.

Advice: keep the Gold/GoldLib card at the start of the bus rather than towards the end.

Reply 3 of 10, by Shponglefan

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carlostex wrote on 2023-08-06, 10:10:

The GF1 GUS cards have the habit of locking up the AdLib ports until they are initialised, so keep that in mind. The GUS ACE has a jumper to disable this behaviour, but the Classic/MAX/Extreme do not so they need to be initialised first, otherwise it will lock out anything at ports 388/389.

In my testing with the GUS Extreme, I didn't see issues like this. If I didn't initialize the GUS Extreme from a cold boot, the GoldLib would work just fine. I could access setup and everything with no issues.

It was only after initializing the GUS Extreme and/or a soft reboot that I would run into problems with the GoldLib.

I also have the GUS Classic in my 386 setup and haven't run into any issues. Although I don't know if I've tried without initializing it. But I may give that a test to see what behavior happens.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 4 of 10, by Shponglefan

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carlostex wrote on 2023-08-06, 10:20:
BTW something else I remembered: […]
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BTW something else I remembered:

My main DOS PC is a Pentium MMX which most of the time is underclocked to 100, so that would guarantee timing issues with the Gold card. My board also has a long ISA bus since I have 6 slots for ISA, so i noticed something interesting.
Despite configuring all the wait states I could into the bus, the MMA timers always failed the tests. I had the Gold card on ISA slot 5, so I moved it to ISA slot 3 and all timing issues went away. Now all tests pass flawlessly everytime.

Advice: keep the Gold/GoldLib card at the start of the bus rather than towards the end.

Are you referring to the tests in the Gold setup? I don't think I've tested that specifically yet, so I'll give it a shot in my current 386.

Though I'm not expecting timing issues to be a problem since I am running in older, slower systems.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 5 of 10, by carlostex

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The issues with the GUS Extreme might come from the ES1688 chipset, it might be trying to write something into the AdLib Gold range, which most obvious symptom might be a completely fucked up mixer.

The AdLib Gold really needs the 388 -> 38Dh range just to itself. Of course you can try to change to another port but you might need to patch drivers for the new range. Games like Dune really do it correctly because you give it the AdLib Gold base port and it works with that, but others that might use AIL or HMI Sound Systems will need its drivers patched.

I haven’t used any cards with the ES1688 in a while, so I don’t remember how configurable they are. With a YMF card you can change its AdLib range, or even with an Orpheus or any other crystal based card so I definitely recommend one of those.

In my case it’s worse because with a PAS card it’s simply impossible unless I patch everything for the AdLib Gold, including its own software. So I ended up choosing the dual OPL2 over the Gold, since I already have an OPL3 on the Orpheus 2.

Reply 6 of 10, by i2lgames

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I am using a AWE64 with a ESS688. If i don't run aweutil the system is using the opl3 of the ess card. The ESS688 have the original or clones of the yamaha chip.
The key here is that the second card should not be PNP. So I set the AWE with port 240 irq 5 dma 3 and 5. The Ess on port 220 irq 7 and dma 1.
After that i make a batch file running the set blaster variable for the sb pro if a game autodetects the blaster settings. And one for the awe variable to revert!
If I want awe music I run the aweutil and unload it afterwards!
In windows I use only the AWE card.

Last edited by i2lgames on 2023-08-07, 11:44. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 7 of 10, by appiah4

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For my 486 (actually a Cx5x86-120 but regardless) I am using an MK8330 for SB/Pro/16/WSS, a PCMIDI card with a Serdaco McCake for MT-32/GS and a PicoGUS for Gravis Ultrasound. I feel like that covers every single base I need to cover.

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Reply 8 of 10, by Shponglefan

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carlostex wrote on 2023-08-06, 22:21:

The issues with the GUS Extreme might come from the ES1688 chipset, it might be trying to write something into the AdLib Gold range, which most obvious symptom might be a completely fucked up mixer.

Yeah I believe it is the ESS chip. Unfortunately the Ultrasound initializer doesn't allow for much configuration (e.g. reassigning the 388h address).

It kinda sucks because I really like the GUS Extreme, but it is a bit more limited in what other cards it will get along with.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 9 of 10, by Shponglefan

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appiah4 wrote on 2023-08-07, 11:10:

For my 486 (actually a Cx5x86-120 but regardless) I am using an MK8330 for SB/Pro/16/WSS, a PCMIDI card with a Serdaco McCake for MT-32/GS and a PicoGUS for Gravis Ultrasound. I feel like that covers every single base I need to cover.

That's a solid setup for sure.

I wish I could have got an MK8330 card back when they were available, but oh well. Lots of other sound cards out there. 😀

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 10 of 10, by carlostex

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Shponglefan wrote on 2023-08-08, 16:44:
carlostex wrote on 2023-08-06, 22:21:

The issues with the GUS Extreme might come from the ES1688 chipset, it might be trying to write something into the AdLib Gold range, which most obvious symptom might be a completely fucked up mixer.

Yeah I believe it is the ESS chip. Unfortunately the Ultrasound initializer doesn't allow for much configuration (e.g. reassigning the 388h address).

It kinda sucks because I really like the GUS Extreme, but it is a bit more limited in what other cards it will get along with.

There’s separate software for the ESS chip. Tons of cards with that chip alone. Maybe try that