VOGONS


First post, by william9

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

When I first received this card it would cause Windows 98 to hang during driver installation. After couple more attempts and after finally switching it to another machine it got worse. It was detected couple boots in that another machine but no sound (machine has Ubuntu).

During another boot attempt it is now gotten to a point where a more modern i3 3220 machine and Asus A7V133-C based setup refuse to boot if this card installed. Abit BH6 will boot but simply ignore this card, it is not detected in Windows 98.

Does this sound like a capacitor problem or perhaps something worse? I don't see any external damage. Two jumpers are missing in the picture, I know, I do have them.

Attachments

Reply 1 of 13, by shevalier

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Vortex is a very simple thing.
AU88X0 core is powered from 3.3V (either from an external regulator or from the bus. On some cards it is set to 0 ohm resistors).
And the output buffers are powered from 5V, Diamond Monster MX300 - from the PCI bus.
And no EEPROM, i.e. firmware.

If there is no short circuit and both voltages (3.3 and 5V) reach AU8820, then the card is dead.

Last edited by shevalier on 2023-09-03, 12:13. Edited 1 time in total.

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Diamond monster sound MX300
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value

Reply 2 of 13, by Roman555

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Maybe there's some dirt or oxidation of edge connector. A soft rubber and then IPA can clean contacts. Also maybe there's cold soldering joints of the chip. Check soldering joints carefully using a needle or a toothpick.

P.S. also the chip shouldn't be too hot when the card is powered on

[ MS6168/PII-350/YMF754/98SE ]
[ 775i65G/E5500/9800Pro/Vortex2/ME ]

Reply 3 of 13, by shevalier

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
william9 wrote on 2023-09-03, 11:07:

Abit BH6 will boot but simply ignore this card, it is not detected in Windows 98.

Some early 440BX boards (like and a some SS7s) do not have +3.3V power on the PCI bus.
About specified Abit - I don`t know.
If it is this sound card that powers the Vortex core from PCI, then this card will not start on such boards.

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Diamond monster sound MX300
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value

Reply 4 of 13, by shevalier

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

If everything is fine with power, but the card does not start.
There is one very bad moment.
Aureal used quartz at 49 MHz, it is not fundamental, but harmonic. For its correct start, a high-Q (and high-quality) series oscillatory circuit is needed.
With high quality ceramic capacitors and wire coil. Some manufacturers often put X5 (brown) instead of C0G (white) and ferrite beads.
It works more often than not. But sometimes it does not work, alas.
It is checked only by replacement.

Attachments

  • AU8830 CUV4X.jpg
    Filename
    AU8830 CUV4X.jpg
    File size
    18.43 KiB
    Views
    641 views
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Vortex quartz.jpg
    Filename
    Vortex quartz.jpg
    File size
    111.61 KiB
    Views
    641 views
    File license
    Public domain

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Diamond monster sound MX300
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value

Reply 5 of 13, by william9

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

It has been a while since I tried this card but today before I assembled the test system I looked the card and probably pressed some chips etc. but currently Asus A7V133-c agrees to boot with this card installed. However even though it now has booted into Windows 98 several times it did crash once and again the board would not boot, I disconnected the card and tried to press down the chip, either it helped or it was just "luck" but now the current state seems to be that board can be booted to Windows with this card in place.

But, Windows does not detect it, I tried the Add New Hardware wizard as well but no. I haven't tested what the i3 does now but it's clear that all is not well with this card.

EDIT: That i3 system also boots with this card but Windows 11 doesn't detect it.

Reply 6 of 13, by shevalier

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

The fact is that if the BIOS has not detected the card, no "black magic" will allow the OS card to be detected.
You can also check with Ubuntu 😀

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Diamond monster sound MX300
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value

Reply 7 of 13, by william9

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Well yeah, New Hardware wizard doesn't appear etc. 😀

I cleaned PCI connector when I first used this card and it looks OK. I powered on the machine and just measure some capacitors with multimeter since they were relatively easy / safe to measure, voltages I found were 6v, 5v, 1.38v and one cap was 9.something so atleast capacitors have some voltage, whether or not correct I have no idea. My soldering station has hot air gun bundled with it, maybe I could try to reflow the main chip or something....

Reply 8 of 13, by shevalier

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
william9 wrote on 2023-09-03, 15:49:

Well yeah, New Hardware wizard doesn't appear etc. 😀

I cleaned PCI connector when I first used this card and it looks OK. I powered on the machine and just measure some capacitors with multimeter since they were relatively easy / safe to measure, voltages I found were 6v, 5v, 1.38v and one cap was 9.something so atleast capacitors have some voltage, whether or not correct I have no idea. My soldering station has hot air gun bundled with it, maybe I could try to reflow the main chip or something....

What a bad habit to immediately solder?
I don't have 8820, only 8830.
But I don't think they are fundamentally different, from an electrical point of view.
1. You must determine if the ferrite beads are intact, i.e. they should have near-zero resistance.
2. Is there a short circuit on the power capacitors?
3. What groups do they belong to? I/O power (5V from PCI bus, according to its pinout) or CORE power (3.3V)
4.Where does 3.3V come from - from the bus or a separate regulator.
5. What kind of U5, what does it give out and what is it connected to.

The controllers of that time did not have a 1.5V power supply. Even 440BX is powered by 3.3V, even SDRAM.
No need to go into the analog part (6V, 9V, as many volts as you like).
It does not affect the initialization of the card.
There may be no sound, there may be noise, there may be anything. But the card must be determined by BIOS.
This requires exactly 2 voltages on the Vortex itself.

Attachments

  • 132.jpg
    Filename
    132.jpg
    File size
    477.42 KiB
    Views
    546 views
    File license
    Public domain

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Diamond monster sound MX300
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value

Reply 10 of 13, by shevalier

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Then - needle + lens and try to gently tear off the Vortex pins from the PCB. Or immediately hotairgun, depending on inclinations.
If it does not help, then either the Vortex is dead, or an error in the PCB, and the card was never worked 🙁

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Diamond monster sound MX300
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value

Reply 11 of 13, by william9

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Update to this: the problem was / is the soldering connections to the Vortex chip.

I blasted the chip pins with some hot air, first at 100c for some time, then I set the temp to 150c and continued to heat for a while and finally I set the temp to 210c. As far as I know, solder from this era should be leaded and melt at lower temp, 180c or something?

Anyways, after heating for a while I did the process in reverse, meaning that I lowered the temp in steps but still kept heating. After I stopped I let the card to cool and tried.

It was recognized and sound also worked via headphones. Problem of course is that with these types of unprofessional reflows it can fail at next boot or continue to work fine.

EDIT: I probably forgot to mention that I took this from a pile of computer stuff which was going to recycling, it was therefore not stored properly, just thrown into a pile with other stuff. Who knows if it worked before that or not, on that same pile there was lots of stuff which was fully working without any issues.

Attachments

  • IMG_20230910_120958.jpg
    Filename
    IMG_20230910_120958.jpg
    File size
    1.13 MiB
    Views
    419 views
    File comment
    vortex is detected
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 12 of 13, by shevalier

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Congratulations!
PS.
Therefore, in such cases I always prefer a needle with a lens.
You can always see what is not soldered.
Here is an example of a supersocket7 clocker IC.
There was a cold solder connection on the output, the motherboard worked through the connection capacitance on bus 100, but was glitchy. At 66 it didn’t start.
Now I know for sure that it was pin 5 from the top left.
PPS I should wash it, but I'm lazy...

Attachments

  • clocker.jpg
    Filename
    clocker.jpg
    File size
    487.55 KiB
    Views
    403 views
    File license
    Public domain

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Diamond monster sound MX300
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value

Reply 13 of 13, by william9

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Yeah, I guest it would be better to inspect properly and only then try to fix clear faults. I do have magnifying glass somewhere and even USB microscope, but I just felt that I'll blast it with some heat and if it doesn't fix then I can't fix it.

Interestingly after reboot the 1GB ram which my test board has suddenly became a problem, before that no issues. I do remember reading that 1GB might be too much in some cases and V86MMGR was also mentioned in that error message. I removed one 256MB stick and then Windows agreed to boot again. My actual retro-PC where I could install this card only has 256mb in total, that PC does currently have ForteMedia FM801.

I tried some games (Duke 3D, Keen 4 and Doom 2) and they sound fine.