DerBaum wrote on 2023-09-07, 19:03:

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Do you know how they made the drivers work for both versions of the cards?
Or did they simply pack a specific driver to these cards based on the components they used?
I really want to understand why there are so many driver problems with aztech cards.

Which OS are you talking about?

DOS doesn't use a separate driver, you just need to use the config util (AZT2316A is non-PnP) to set resources, the rest is handled by the games/apps directly - and they just treat it as an SBPro 2.0 or WSS card.

Under Windows you do need drivers, but there again the codec doesn't matter as the OS doesn't talk to the codec directly as the AZT2316A is in between. Win98SE has native (and in my experience trouble-free) drivers for it. You just need to tell it (non-PnP) which resources have been configured on the card.

It would be amazing to make a driver pack suitable for all variants.
But im not skilled enough to make and analyse drivers.

i have 4 mmsn822 and i have never looked at the codecs... i will do it right now 😁

Probably a mix 😜

Why so many of that card? It's 2nd gen AZT1605-based, which has a DSP that advertises itself as SB non-Pro, so even though the card is capable of (16b via WSS, 8b SBPro2) stereo, you get 8b mono out of it if your software does any detection on it. I have one too, but purely as a curiosity. In terms of compatibility the MMSN810 beats it hands-down (with proper T4 DSP, WSS but also Covox/DSS support) and in terms of simple trouble-free elegance the MMSN824 is miles better.

dionb wrote on 2023-09-07, 20:46:

Which OS are you talking about? […]
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DerBaum wrote on 2023-09-07, 19:03:

[...] […]
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[...]

Do you know how they made the drivers work for both versions of the cards?
Or did they simply pack a specific driver to these cards based on the components they used?
I really want to understand why there are so many driver problems with aztech cards.

Which OS are you talking about?

DOS doesn't use a separate driver, you just need to use the config util (AZT2316A is non-PnP) to set resources, the rest is handled by the games/apps directly - and they just treat it as an SBPro 2.0 or WSS card.

Under Windows you do need drivers, but there again the codec doesn't matter as the OS doesn't talk to the codec directly as the AZT2316A is in between. Win98SE has native (and in my experience trouble-free) drivers for it. You just need to tell it (non-PnP) which resources have been configured on the card.

It would be amazing to make a driver pack suitable for all variants.
But im not skilled enough to make and analyse drivers.

i have 4 mmsn822 and i have never looked at the codecs... i will do it right now 😁

Probably a mix 😜

Why so many of that card? It's 2nd gen AZT1605-based, which has a DSP that advertises itself as SB non-Pro, so even though the card is capable of (16b via WSS, 8b SBPro2) stereo, you get 8b mono out of it if your software does any detection on it. I have one too, but purely as a curiosity. In terms of compatibility the MMSN810 beats it hands-down (with proper T4 DSP, WSS but also Covox/DSS support) and in terms of simple trouble-free elegance the MMSN824 is miles better.

I started collecting them 15 years ago when you got them for like 2-5 euros... shipped!
Everytime i saw one that was cheap i bought it. now i have a bin full of aztech cards.
I had an Aztech card in my first PC, and i couldnt really remember wich model it was... so i decided to buy all of them 😁 until they got expensive.
now im addicted to collecting aztech cards. 😏

I have noticed that some of the cards seem to have a tiny 128 bit serial eprom and some dont have that. That must be there to store the settings you can set with the tool.
Does that mean the ones with the eprom can be set up with the software and will then work without initialising it, and the ones without eprom have to always be initialised on boot?
Does it have anything to do with PNP? I thought the eprom holds the PNP data.

Its amazing how much i do not know, where i thought i know a lot 😁

I was asking about the drivers because i often read that people install drivers that dont work.

1st, 2nd and 3rd gen Aztech chips are non-PnP. They use an EEPROM to store configuration settings - with a different config tool per generation (and possibly difference between 3rd gen AZT2316A and AZT2316R- not totally sure about that). The AZT2316R has had a die-shrink and integrates more stuff than AZT2316A.

4th gen (AZT2320) chips are PnP chips that need to be initialized. They are supported by Unisound - by far the easiest choice - but Aztech's own tool also works fine.

As for "drivers" - a lot of people don't clearly distinguish between configuration tools (needs to be run one-off per installation), initialization tools (every boot) and drivers (only relevant for operating systems with an audio subsystem, i.e. not DOS). Generally the problems seem to be that people can't find the correct config tools for non-PnP devices, which seems to particularly affect AZT2316R-based cards. That has nothing to do with drivers.

dionb wrote on 2023-09-07, 21:23:

1st, 2nd and 3rd gen Aztech chips are non-PnP. They use an EEPROM to store configuration settings - with a different config tool per generation (and possibly difference between 3rd gen AZT2316A and AZT2316R- not totally sure about that). The AZT2316R has had a die-shrink and integrates more stuff than AZT2316A.

4th gen (AZT2320) chips are PnP chips that need to be initialized. They are supported by Unisound - by far the easiest choice - but Aztech's own tool also works fine.

As for "drivers" - a lot of people don't clearly distinguish between configuration tools (needs to be run one-off per installation), initialization tools (every boot) and drivers (only relevant for operating systems with an audio subsystem, i.e. not DOS). Generally the problems seem to be that people can't find the correct config tools for non-PnP devices, which seems to particularly affect AZT2316R-based cards. That has nothing to do with drivers.

Do you know if there is a easy to understand write up how to get all cards working anywhere?
Where all the details are explained and the tools are available and some kind of list where you can see wich card needs what...
If not, im thinking about making one here on vogons.
I should have a wide range of cards from all 4 generations to test on...
But i think i would need somebody (like you) to guide me to a proper test procedure.

There was a really good guide on someone's blog, I found it with search terms "Aztech paws". Unfortunately it's no longer findable using google...

dionb wrote on 2023-09-07, 23:13:

There was a really good guide on someone's blog, I found it with search terms "Aztech paws". Unfortunately it's no longer findable using google...

ilovepa.ws ?
I used it several times as reference....

i think that is/was "saxxonpike´s" website. SaxxonPike

appiah4 wrote on 2023-09-07, 15:02:

Paradoxpm wrote on 2023-09-07, 11:45:

FYI Windows 95 recognized it as a Washington 16. It loads the drivers automatically but no sound.

The AZT chip is common with a Washington and apprently the device ids are the same as well but the Codecs are definitely different and those drivers won't get any sound from this card. Please try the drivers I linked above.

Unfortunately these did not work. Installed fine but no sound in Windows 3.11 or DIAGNOSE.EXE
When installing, I saw that the files refer to an AZT-2316/R, while mine has an AZT-2316/A.

Update: I have found an updated sound package for Windows 95. It identifies the card as AZTECH MMP16AE. What card does it refer to?

MMP16 should be Sound Galaxy Multi Media Pro 16. (I38-SN96120)
But the MM Pro 16 is a 4th generation card with ATZ2320 chipset.
Does it work with the drivers?

The 3rd generation has a card called "Multi Media Pro IIB -3D" (I38-SN96103).

Unfortunately not. Here is the readme file (https://askpc.panasonic.co.jp/hpc/service/lib … pdate/32gp.html):

Instructions […]
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Instructions

From: Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.
Division: Personal Computer Division

This software is intended to update the sound driver for Windows 95 on the WOODY (CF-32 series) machine.

Before updating, kindly read the following guidelines:

Conditions of Use

This software is specifically for customers using our below-mentioned computers. Its primary goal is to rectify issues encountered during its use. Any usage outside of this context, including but not limited to, sharing in magazines or on computer communication platforms, is strictly prohibited.

Device: WOODY CF-32 series
Software Environment: Having AV Viewer 95 installed on Windows 95
For additional conditions not covered here, refer to the device manual's software license agreement. By partially or wholly installing this software, you agree to its terms.

How to Update

Windows must not be active during the update. Follow these steps:

a. Insert the provided "Utility Disk" into the floppy drive and power on. You'll see an MS-DOS prompt.

b. Place the software's update disk into the floppy drive (Drive A) and enter the following commands:

A: followed by Enter
UPDATE C: followed by Enter

Follow any subsequent on-screen prompts.

Points to Note:

Ensure the hard drive where Windows drivers are (usually C drive) has approximately 1KB of free space.

The software assumes certain directory structures. If altered, the software won't install properly. Refer to the directories:

C:\WINDOWS
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM
If you've reinstalled the AV Viewer, update it using this software afterward.

If updates fail due to limited space or write-protected files, free up space or remove write protection and try again.

Update Features

The AZTECH MMP16AE sound driver is now enhanced with full-duplex communication capability.

Paradoxpm wrote on 2023-09-10, 03:42:

Update: I have found an updated sound package for Windows 95. It identifies the card as AZTECH MMP16AE. What card does it refer to?

I wouldn't be surprised if the AE in the end is something like Acer Edition or whatever and you need some OEM specific drivers for this.. Do you know what PC this card came from?

https://www.reddit.com/r/vintagecomputing/com … e_old_japanese/
Yes, it's a Japanese Panasonic-Matsushita AIO.

Update: managed to get it to work in W98 in a different pc. Since it doesn’t have any output that I can plug in there, I could only try line in and it works okay. Here is a list of the drivers that it’s loading. Any ideas?

Paradoxpm wrote on 2023-09-11, 13:28:

Update: managed to get it to work in W98 in a different pc. Since it doesn’t have any output that I can plug in there, I could only try line in and it works okay. Here is a list of the drivers that it’s loading. Any ideas?

You can use dupont wires to route the L/O header to the L/I (Or CD-ROM Audio) header of another card.

On you picture of the card there is an orange connector with a blue, a white , a black and a red cable.
This should be the line out. can you confirm that both center pins (white and black) are ground?
If yes, then Blue and Red are the left and right channel.

That’s a great idea. I’ll try that this week.
How would I have it work in DOS/W3.11?

Paradoxpm wrote on 2023-09-11, 14:57:

That’s a great idea. I’ll try that this week.
How would I have it work in DOS/W3.11?

First try to get some sound from it.
Sometimes driver install fine and you still dont have sound.
If the drivers work windows98 and the type of card is confirmed working, you can install the dos/w3.1 drivers for this card type.

Thats what i would do...

DerBaum wrote on 2023-09-11, 15:13:

First try to get some sound from it. Sometimes driver install fine and you still dont have sound. If the drivers work windows98 […]
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Paradoxpm wrote on 2023-09-11, 14:57:

That’s a great idea. I’ll try that this week.
How would I have it work in DOS/W3.11?

First try to get some sound from it.
Sometimes driver install fine and you still dont have sound.
If the drivers work windows98 and the type of card is confirmed working, you can install the dos/w3.1 drivers for this card type.

Thats what i would do...

Update: Unfortunately, I am unable to get any sound from it. Windows sees the card and configures it correctly. Line in & Mic in work okay and I am able to record sounds, but no output whatsoever. I am at a loss here...

How did you connect your output?
Any pictures or measurments?

Card is connected to output through an internal mixer.
Card -> internal line out -> mixer -> powered integrated speakers.
The mixer and the speakers are working properly, as I can play external input and the internal buzzer (which is also router through the mixer to the integrated speakers) is working perfectly.