Here's maybe a little more detail since I was sort of in a hurry when I wrote the original post. So I do understand that these are both kind of low-end machines, and both BIOS are very stripped down with almost no options to set or change.

Problem system #1 specs:
ECS K7SOM+ motherboard with a soldered-on Duron 1.2 GHz.
512MB DDR PC3200
40GB IDE HDD
It's a really oddball industrial kind of thing - very small MicroATX board with no AGP slot but it does have onboard graphics, sound, LAN, etc.
BIOS is super locked down with almost nothing to change or look at
Chipset: SiS 740
Graphics: nVidia GeForce FX 5200 PCI 256MB (onboard disabled)
Sound: Supposedly SiS 7012 (but the drivers show either "Realtek/C-Media AC97 Audio Device"

I had a hard time finding drivers that would work for the onboard sound and graphics. XP was a mild irritation with drivers, but Windows 98 was a nightmare. Most audios driver I tried would give a BSOD or just freeze the PC, and every one of them had some sort of problem. Could never figure out how to change the IRQ. There is an MPU-401 MIDI device listed, but no SB Emulation.

Any advice for how to configure this thing to be compatible with Doom?

Problem system #2 specs:
ASUS MEW-VM motherboard (HP OEM) with a locked down BIOS
This was a board from something like a Pavilion 6545 and is another oddball thing with limited features
Celeron 500MHz
512MB PC133 SDRAM
10GB IDE HDD
No AGP, no ISA
Chipset: Intel i810
Graphics: Intel 82810 onboard graphics
Sound: Ensoniq ES1370 based PCI card. The sticker on the back of the card says AudioPCI 9738.

Again with the sound driver installation nightmare. The newer Creative drivers for the Ensoniq cards just seem to want to "upgrade" something that isn't there, and the older Creative drivers fail with something like "Setup could not detect any Sound Blaster hardware on your system". I was able to find a driver that "sort of" worked - i.e. it installed without freezing or causing BSOD - but doesn't output any audio. Plus they are in French and I don't speak much French.

I did run Memtest on both systems to rule out bad RAM, and tested each HDD with the respective manufacturers' utility. There are no visibly bad capacitors or obvious physical damage to the boards.

Where do I start here?

Bios update? A bios update fixed the issues with random blue screens i was having lately with my GA-7ZX-rev-1x running windoze 1998 second edition. just a thought.

K7SOM+ would need a BIOS update for duron support ~ https://www.ecs.com.tw/en/Product/Motherboard … usV75A/download (make sure it's been done)

Which drivers are you using?

djsabreblade wrote on 2023-12-05, 01:36:

Bios update? A bios update fixed the issues with random blue screens i was having lately with my GA-7ZX-rev-1x running windoze 1998 second edition. just a thought.

giantclam wrote on 2023-12-05, 02:01:

K7SOM+ would need a BIOS update for duron support ~ https://www.ecs.com.tw/en/Product/Motherboard … usV75A/download (make sure it's been done)

Which drivers are you using?

So for PC#1 (the Duron) - Since the Duron is soldered in place, not socketed, I would have certainly hoped it would come with the appropriate Duron CPU support from the factory. But you're right, one just never knows!

Here is some info on the current BIOS version. Initial startup splash screen shows this:
K7SOM+ Release 04/22/2003 S
(C) American Megatrends Inc.,
62-0422-001131-0010111-040201-SiS740-K7SOM+

CPU-Z informs the following:
Brand: American Megatrends Inc.
Version 07.00T
Date 04/02/01

None of these numbers correspond to any of the downloads available on that ECS website.
The Retro Web has a few BIOS images for this board, but none of those exactly match mine either.
It does look like the latest version offered there is 62-1205-001131-00101111-040201-SiS740-K7SOM+
Is that older or newer than the one I already have? It's not clear to me how to interpret these version strings.

Anyway, even if I try one of these BIOS downloads from The Retro Web, all I get is a .rom file and not a BIOS updater. Assuming the AMI BIOS uses AFUWIN to flash the update, I grabbed a copy of that, but it says "Error: BIOS does not support AFU."

Hmm

As far as drivers go, the C-Media AC97 Audio Device driver is version 5.12.1.51 dated 6/22/2006 provided by C-Media Inc. (I don't think it's the one from Windows Update or whatever).

Latest BIOS from the ECS website is dated 08/07/03 ... I would try their drivers for sound.

Oh - is that how the date format works? 30807 translates to 2003/08/07? Makes sense, thanks.

I still do not understand how exactly to flash this BIOS. The BIOS downloaded from the ECS website is just a .rom file. AMI's flasher utility AFUWIN 4.48 says "Error: BIOS does not support AFU."

Downloaded an older version of AFUWIN (3.05.04) but it's a command line thing that I don't really understand how to use.

By the way, another little piece of info - I installed Unreal Tournament (UT99) and I have the same issue as I do with Doom. So the problem is not strictly related to DOS games. In UT, not only does the whole game lag like crazy, but the audio skips and is scratchy sounding.

Side note, I did try the "official" ECS drivers for sound. Nothing changed.

A couple other things I did:

Tried different RAM. Same issue.
Removed the FX5200 and tried the onboard graphics. Same issue.
Removed the wireless card and also disabled the onboard NIC. Same issue.
Unplugged the KVM I'm using and put the PS/2 keyboard and mouse directly on this PC. No different.

Oh - is that how the date format works? 30807 translates to 2003/08/07? Makes sense, thanks.

No, I loaded the BIOS into a hexeditor and saw the datestamp there...

I still do not understand how exactly to flash this BIOS. The BIOS downloaded from the ECS website is just a .rom file. AMI's flasher utility AFUWIN 4.48 says "Error: BIOS does not support AFU."

Oddly, you seem not to have read the mainboard manual ~ there it states you need winflash.exe (winflash v1.51 was supplied on the driver CD) Please, RTFM yeah? =)

I don't care about the (game/sound) performance at the now ; I'm not convinced you have the correct bios flashed.

Well... you are correct - I did not read the manual. I honestly don't think I've ever looked closely at a motherboard manual before, other than to identify jumpers or the pinouts for front panel connectors. Interesting stuff.

I clearly don't have much experience messing with BIOSes, but I did use Winflash earlier this year for my Shuttle AK31. I'll look into this route for the K7SOM+.

And another thing I didn't even consider was trying to find an original driver CD for a motherboard this obscure. But sure enough, there is one on Archive.org that looks like it will work. I'm downloading it now. And it has Windows 98 drivers too. All those sketchy driver guide websites are so sketchy and it's so hard to find working drivers.

Aye, even today I just skim over them for some hardware particular specifics, but with these older machines the user manual typically told the user which software to use =)

Yes, preferable to get it from the original driver CD that was issued with the board if possible -- saves downloading something that could be malicious.

nezwick wrote on 2023-12-06, 02:24:

Well... you are correct - I did not read the manual. I honestly don't think I've ever looked closely at a motherboard manual before, other than to identify jumpers or the pinouts for front panel connectors. Interesting stuff.

I clearly don't have much experience messing with BIOSes, but I did use Winflash earlier this year for my Shuttle AK31. I'll look into this route for the K7SOM+.

And another thing I didn't even consider was trying to find an original driver CD for a motherboard this obscure. But sure enough, there is one on Archive.org that looks like it will work. I'm downloading it now. And it has Windows 98 drivers too. All those sketchy driver guide websites are so sketchy and it's so hard to find working drivers.

As a general rule don't look for motherboard-specific drivers. Unless a board does something highly unusual, the vendor will just package chipset drivers with some crapware and that's your CD. Frequently that CD never gets updated, so the drivers tend to be whatever version was newest at release of the board, lacking bugfixes. Plus they can be hard to find and what you find tends to be on malware-infested sites.

Instead, look for chipset drivers from the chipset vendor. Every motherboard chipset needs chipset drivers. Some are included in a Windows install, but that is a small minority (generally only Intel chipsets older than the OS in question). The AK31 has a Via KT266 chipset so need Via 4-in-1 or (later) Hyperion chipset drivers. The K7SOM+ has a SiS 740 chipset so needs SiS AGP and IDE drivers (and if you want to use the IGP, drivers for that too).

Via's drivers are still available from Via themselves: http://download.viatech.com/en/support/driversSelect.jsp
SiS no longer has, unfortunately, but the drivers are mirrored at Phil's Computer Lab (https://www.philscomputerlab.com/sis-chipset-drivers.html) and on Vogonsdrivers (http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=1 … menustate=31,29)

Note that the newest driver revisions are rarely needed and can be counterproductive (take a look at the size of the later Hyperion packages vs older 4-in-1, for example, not to mention newer drivers frequently performing worse on older hardware). Generally you want the first stable, well-liked release newer than the hardware you're trying to run. Via helpfully lists which driver is best for which chipset (4.35 or 4.43 in this case), but that's an exception; in other cases (nVidia Detonator drivers) you might want to look up discussions here on Vogons about best version for given hardware - but once again it's all about the chips, not whatever board someone happened to solder them on.

PROGRESS TO REPORT!!!

OK so, I took things back a few steps with the K7SOM+ machine. I also totally gave up on the BIOS upgrade train of thought. And here's why. I discovered that the original DOS Doom definitely doesn't play well on XP for whatever reason. I loaded up DOS Doom on my fast Athlon 64 rig and it played like total garbage. I loaded it up on an Athlon XP rig and it played like total garbage. So I'm going to go ahead and say the issues with Doom on this Duron based PC were unrelated to sound drivers or BIOS version. It was XP. And whatever the issues were with the very first 98SE install... well who knows. Bad drivers, RAM needed re-seated, dumb mistakes, or just bad luck.

So I wiped it clean and reinstalled Win98SE (because that's what I truly want on here, not XP) and ended up with a pretty stable system this time. I did use the ORIGINAL ECS DRIVER CD that I found on Archive.org. Everything on there installed properly except the "SiS 7001 PCI to USB Open Host Controller" which I was quickly able to find a driver for on the internet.

I also did a little reading on this whole subject and a little more testing.

So the SOUND EFFECTS in Doom work just fine in Windows 98. The sound effects use Sound Blaster emulation which Windows 98 handles on its own somehow completely unrelated to the actual IRQ of the sound card itself. I don't fully understand how, but whatever. For example, the C-Media AC97 Audio Device currently has IRQ 10, but when using "Sound Blaster; Port 220; IRQ 5; DMA channel 1" in the Doom setup program, the SOUND EFFECTS play just fine. Gameplay is also smooth as expected.

Additionally, the BLASTER variable is set: "BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4 P330" <-- take note of that P330

However, the MUSIC did not work. The music needs to use General MIDI, and I did find in the BIOS setup where the MIDI Port can be set to either 300 or 330 and the IRQ can be set to 5, 10, or 11. The port is set to 330, which corresponds to the last part of the BLASTER variable above. BUT WAIT... it took me a little bit of contemplation here, but I eventually figured out that this is referring to a PHYSICAL MIDI device that can be connected externally. NOT the sound card's built-in MIDI playback capability. It turns out that all along, I was actually pointing the MIDI music in the game to something that did not exist on port 330. So that explains what the "MPU-401 Compatible" thing was in the device manager. It was not a thing that plays Doom music.

By disabling the MIDI Device entirely in the BIOS, I removed the conflict on port 330 and guess what - the MIDI music works just fine in Doom now! Doom II and Chex Quest as well.

So big thanks to those who responded to me so far, I really appreciate the motivation to keep going here. I'm going to say this Duron system is just fine - the issues are with MY LACK OF UNDERSTANDING and/or with sketchy drivers from sketchy websites.

Time to move on and start messing with that Celeron system and the AudioPCI card. I have a feeling it's also suffering a configuration issue and not a physical problem. We'll see.

UPDATE #2:

The second system with the HP board and the AudioPCI sound card is working correctly now as well.

Just like the first one, I reformatted the HDD and reinstalled Windows 98SE. Loaded drivers carefully. I was actually able to find an iso of an original Ensoniq AudioPCI installation disc. Got the sound up and running immediately with that. Games like Doom tested out ok!

I then went ahead and installed the Creative driver upgrade and re-tested the games. Everything is good to go. The AudioPCI card is actually pretty cool. I went and grabbed the 8 megabyte waveset file and got that set up. I was also able to go into the BIOS and re-enable the serial and parallel ports, and got no conflicts upon restart.

In addition, Unreal Tournament, GLQuake, and Quake III arena both play as expected on the Duron system thanks to the PCI video card. Unfortunately the Celeron system does not have a dedicated video card at this time, but that will be up to the next owner to deal with.

So in conclusion, I either had two totally corrupt Windows 98 installations or lots of faulty/improper drivers the first time around. Now everything is fine.

I think after this experience, I've about had my fill of installing and configuring Windows 98 and drivers for a while. I am very relieved these two systems are just about ready to be sent on to their next owners and I can get back to enjoying my main (and not so flaky) Windows 98 rig.

Good to hear you resolved it ~ how often it is we overlook Occam's razor in situations like this ...ie; "reinstall windows" =)

Typically once I have '98 all setup and happy (before installing any other software), I put the PATA drive on a faster box, and use clonezilla to image the drive -- that way you can 'reinstall windows' in less than 5minutes. You can do that same thing after installing stuff you want (games etc), just to avoid the senseless pain of win9x loosing the plot ...