Firstly, you're right that the hanging note bug does not affect FM synthesis.

What you're considering sounds similar to what I do on one of my machines. I use different cards to you (SB16 and Audigy 2) but it's essentially the same.

It's straight forward enough to configure the two cards to play nice together. Here are some thoughts and my own experiences from using a similar set up:

1. Use this guide to install the live! drivers. It includes DOS drivers (which emulate a SB16) and you get the ability to use different sound fonts for general MIDI through a sound bank manager. This will let you get the most out of general MIDI and you won't even need an external device.
2. I personally find that the DOS drivers for the Live! and Audigy cards are fine for most of the DOS games I play on my particular rig, meaning I don't use my real SB16 very often. General MIDI sounds great so long as it's running in the windows-mode DOS. In true DOS it will use the default creative sound font, which isn't so great.
3. I only use the real SB16 in cases where I want genuine OPL3 FM synth (the FM synth on the Live! is terrible) or cases where the Audigy's (Live!'s) DOS drivers just don't cut it (there are cases where audio crackles in DOS games), but these are pretty rare on this particular machine. It might be different for you.
4. The AWE32 has some additional features the Live!'s SB16 emulation doesn't that you might want to utilise, such as the EMU8000 wavetable (which doesn't have the hanging note bug either, as far as I'm aware). But I'm not qualified enough to talk through those.
5. I haven't tested using an external device via the Live!/Audigy gameport, mostly because I haven't needed to, so I can't confirm whether this will work . My guess is it will probably work in Windows-Mode DOS (but isn't necessary because you can use sound fonts) but not in pure DOS (which is where you'd need to use it), but hopefully someone who has tried this can chime in.
6. If you do want to use an external module in DOS and it won't work on the Live! card, you can checkout FIXMPU which is a software solution to the hanging note bug. I haven't personally tried it, but worth a shot.
7. If you haven't already, make sure you check the doc in this thread to see what bugs your AWE32 model has - there are few different versions with different bugs, and yours might not be very buggy.
8. The multichannel mixer for DOS sound builds might also be a useful tool for you. I haven't personally tried it.

Hope that helps.

Martli wrote on 2024-03-03, 09:45:

Firstly, you're right that the hanging note bug does not affect FM synthesis. […]
Show full quote

Firstly, you're right that the hanging note bug does not affect FM synthesis.

What you're considering sounds similar to what I do on one of my machines. I use different cards to you (SB16 and Audigy 2) but it's essentially the same.

It's straight forward enough to configure the two cards to play nice together. Here are some thoughts and my own experiences from using a similar set up:

1. Use this guide to install the live! drivers. It includes DOS drivers (which emulate a SB16) and you get the ability to use different sound fonts for general MIDI through a sound bank manager. This will let you get the most out of general MIDI and you won't even need an external device.
2. I personally find that the DOS drivers for the Live! and Audigy cards are fine for most of the DOS games I play on my particular rig, meaning I don't use my real SB16 very often. General MIDI sounds great so long as it's running in the windows-mode DOS. In true DOS it will use the default creative sound font, which isn't so great.
3. I only use the real SB16 in cases where I want genuine OPL3 FM synth (the FM synth on the Live! is terrible) or cases where the Audigy's (Live!'s) DOS drivers just don't cut it (there are cases where audio crackles in DOS games), but these are pretty rare on this particular machine. It might be different for you.
4. The AWE32 has some additional features the Live!'s SB16 emulation doesn't that you might want to utilise, such as the EMU8000 wavetable (which doesn't have the hanging note bug either, as far as I'm aware). But I'm not qualified enough to talk through those.
5. I haven't tested using an external device via the Live!/Audigy gameport, mostly because I haven't needed to, so I can't confirm whether this will work . My guess is it will probably work in Windows-Mode DOS (but isn't necessary because you can use sound fonts) but not in pure DOS (which is where you'd need to use it), but hopefully someone who has tried this can chime in.
6. If you do want to use an external module in DOS and it won't work on the Live! card, you can checkout FIXMPU which is a software solution to the hanging note bug. I haven't personally tried it, but worth a shot.
7. If you haven't already, make sure you check the doc in this thread to see what bugs your AWE32 model has - there are few different versions with different bugs, and yours might not be very buggy.
8. The multichannel mixer for DOS sound builds might also be a useful tool for you. I haven't personally tried it.

Hope that helps.

2. The problem I started to run into was compatibility with specific games, namely Tyrian and Duke Nukem II, which is what's prompting my desire to get an AWE32.
4. I specifically want the AWE32 so I can take advantage of the special features found in certain DOS games like Dungeon Keeper and Eradicator. I don't know if the Live! supports AWE features in its DOS drivers, but given how I want to set up my two cards, I'd be using the "legacy" card for all DOS stuff anyway.
5. I can't imagine why using an external device via the gameport wouldn't work. As long as I have the right IRQ set it should be fine, right? I have an SC-55ST that I want to eventually set up (waiting for EmuSC to be finished so I won't need it on my main rig anymore), so that's why I brought up external devices.
6. I've heard about FixMPU, and while it's nice that there is somewhat of a solution for this, I wish it could be loaded as a TSR instead of having to put it before every program I want to run.
7. I haven't bought the AWE32 yet, there was one on ebay I'd been eyeballing. I just checked and realized that the model I was looking at doesn't have an actual OPL3, but has that damn CQM chip, god dammit. All these bugs and variations are driving me insane 🤣. Coming from DOSBox, this has become a whole other can of worms. Oh well, guess I'll bookmark that spreadsheet and keep looking.
8. Looks like an interesting program, I do hope that I won't need it, tho given the line noise reputation of the SB16 and AWE32, maybe I will.

Okay, so I decided to buy a SB16 (model CT2800) instead, since that's more affordable. Hopefully once it gets here, everything should go relatively smoothly.

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-05, 19:56:

Okay, so I decided to buy a SB16 (model CT2800) instead, since that's more affordable. Hopefully once it gets here, everything should go relatively smoothly.

Let us know how it goes!

Martli wrote on 2024-03-05, 23:55:

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-05, 19:56:

Okay, so I decided to buy a SB16 (model CT2800) instead, since that's more affordable. Hopefully once it gets here, everything should go relatively smoothly.

Let us know how it goes!

Follow-up question, while I'm waiting for it to arrive: will I need a cable to directly connect my SB 16 to the CD drive? Or does that depend on the specific model or some external factors?

Short answer is yes, assuming you want CD audio in DOS mode through the SB16.

It gets a little complicated though as you’re using two sound cards and presumably you want to have cd-audio through the Live! also. Your options are basically:
1) use your cd-drive’s digital/SPDIF out for CD audio on the live!, and analog out for CD audio on the SB16 (this is what I do)

2) plug the analog cable into the SB16 and use WDM drivers for the Live! instead of VxD (digital cd-audio will go over the IDE cable instead). This isn’t recommended as your rig will take a performance hit using WDM over VxD

3) plug the analog CD audio into the live and use the multi channel mixer tool I linked above to initialise the Live!’s CD audio, route the line out of the Live! into the line in of your SB16

4) route the CD audio out of the CD drive’s front headphone Jack into an external mixer (might be a good option for multiple sound cards, but requires more hardware)

5) route analog CD audio to the Live! and just use this card for DOS games with CD-audio (probably not a good option as most of the issues with the live/audigy DOS drivers I’ve had are in DOS games with CD audio)

Hope that helps.

Martli wrote on 2024-03-06, 03:36:

Short answer is yes, assuming you want CD audio in DOS mode through the SB16. […]
Show full quote

Short answer is yes, assuming you want CD audio in DOS mode through the SB16.

It gets a little complicated though as you’re using two sound cards and presumably you want to have cd-audio through the Live! also. Your options are basically:
1) use your cd-drive’s digital/SPDIF out for CD audio on the live!, and analog out for CD audio on the SB16 (this is what I do)

2) plug the analog cable into the SB16 and use WDM drivers for the Live! instead of VxD (digital cd-audio will go over the IDE cable instead). This isn’t recommended as your rig will take a performance hit using WDM over VxD

3) plug the analog CD audio into the live and use the multi channel mixer tool I linked above to initialise the Live!’s CD audio, route the line out of the Live! into the line in of your SB16

4) route the CD audio out of the CD drive’s front headphone Jack into an external mixer (might be a good option for multiple sound cards, but requires more hardware)

5) route analog CD audio to the Live! and just use this card for DOS games with CD-audio (probably not a good option as most of the issues with the live/audigy DOS drivers I’ve had are in DOS games with CD audio)

Hope that helps.

I think I'll just need to get a SPDIF cable for connecting my Live!, as it already has the analog cable that I can just plug into the SB16 when it arrives. Just bought a 2-pin SPDIF cable on ebay, hopefully that should do the trick.

How do you feel about soldering?

Re: The Soundblaster DSP project

Hanging note bug has been fixed, among a few other things.

RockstarRunner wrote on 2024-03-08, 09:39:

How do you feel about soldering?

Re: The Soundblaster DSP project

Hanging note bug has been fixed, among a few other things.

Honestly I think I soldered like once in middle school, and never again. I do not trust myself to do soldering on something like that.

Okay, update: I got my SB 16 (SPDIF cable's still on the way). For the most part, it's working pretty great! Luckily this hasn't been a problem with running DOS stuff in Windows, but in DOS mode, the line-in passthrough for the SBLive! doesn't seem to play the SB16's signal. Plugging directly into the SB16 will play the sounds just fine, but no MIDI, and vice versa for the SBLive!. Is there a way to get the passthrough working in DOS mode?

My cards are configured as follows:

SB16:
A220 I5 D1 H5 P300 T6

SBLive!:
A240 I7 D3 H7 P330 T6

PCI slots doesn’t support ISA slot IRQ or address. Find motherboard where is SBlink on motherboard hardware for PCI sound cards.

Next question: WHY?!

Boomer wrote on 2024-03-10, 22:20:

PCI slots doesn’t support ISA slot IRQ or address. Find motherboard where is SBlink on motherboard hardware for PCI sound cards.

Next question: WHY?!

Little late on that, but also I got it working just fine for the most part using the aforementioned multi-channel mixer.

As for why, I think I explained why I wanted do this setup in the main post 🤣

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-10, 23:55:

As for why, I think I explained why I wanted do this setup in the main post 🤣

Great! Does that include MIDI through an external device in pure DOS using the Live!?

Martli wrote on 2024-03-11, 19:27:

OpenRift wrote on 2024-03-10, 23:55:

As for why, I think I explained why I wanted do this setup in the main post 🤣

Great! Does that include MIDI through an external device in pure DOS using the Live!?

Currently just using the Live!'s wavetable for General MIDI for the time being.

I haven't gotten the external device set up yet partially because I need like an 8-pin DIN to DB-15 gameport cable, which I'm finding like zero results for online. Apparently the SC-55ST (the device in question) originally came with one, except when looking at the manual online it seemed like went to a DB-25 plug instead of DB-15. Not sure what to do there. I may make a new post asking about that specifically later on, but any suggestions or advice regarding that part specifically is appreciated regardless.

Try a music store, that’s where I got mine from. A proel C2MSB01

Martli wrote on 2024-03-12, 03:52:

Try a music store, that’s where I got mine from. A proel C2MSB01

I bought a gameport to MIDI cable and after hours of trying to get it working, I'm beginning to wonder if this cable is broken. I've tried using it on the gameport of both my Sound Blaster Live! and SB Vibra16, and neither of them want to output any MIDI to my SC-55ST. This is the second time I've had to get a cable because the first bozo sent me a music CD instead of what I ordered. I'd hate to have to buy another cable just to realize that it's something else that's causing these issues.

Any suggestions on what I should try?

OpenRift wrote on 2024-04-17, 04:00:

Martli wrote on 2024-03-12, 03:52:

Try a music store, that’s where I got mine from. A proel C2MSB01

I bought a gameport to MIDI cable and after hours of trying to get it working, I'm beginning to wonder if this cable is broken. I've tried using it on the gameport of both my Sound Blaster Live! and SB Vibra16, and neither of them want to output any MIDI to my SC-55ST. This is the second time I've had to get a cable because the first bozo sent me a music CD instead of what I ordered. I'd hate to have to buy another cable just to realize that it's something else that's causing these issues.

Any suggestions on what I should try?

I suggest this and a MIDI cable. These are known work well.

https://www.serdashop.com/DB15MIDI

darry wrote on 2024-04-17, 04:26:

OpenRift wrote on 2024-04-17, 04:00:

Martli wrote on 2024-03-12, 03:52:

Try a music store, that’s where I got mine from. A proel C2MSB01

I bought a gameport to MIDI cable and after hours of trying to get it working, I'm beginning to wonder if this cable is broken. I've tried using it on the gameport of both my Sound Blaster Live! and SB Vibra16, and neither of them want to output any MIDI to my SC-55ST. This is the second time I've had to get a cable because the first bozo sent me a music CD instead of what I ordered. I'd hate to have to buy another cable just to realize that it's something else that's causing these issues.

Any suggestions on what I should try?

I suggest this and a MIDI cable. These are known work well.

https://www.serdashop.com/DB15MIDI

I moreso meant from like a software perspective, like if there's something I should be trying or am doing wrong, etc.

I'll keep that one in mind though, if I can't get the current one working I'll probably get that.

EDIT: I guess I'm getting it now because I tested the cable with my XP machine and it doesn't seem to work at all on there either.