VOGONS


First post, by Nemo1985

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Hello fellow vogonians, such video card has came to my hands and after testing it, I do wonder what could be a good use for such card?
Dos compatibility is good but not perfect, it has quirks with windows 98 and with windows xp I had to manually install the drivers (maybe because it's an oem card) otherwise no card was detected.
I tested it in 3d (3dmark suite) and it's noticeably slower than the agp version, I found out the pci version has decreased clock speed compared to the agp, despite using nice 5ns memory, the clock seems to be tied with the core and I wasn't able to find any utility for some overclocking.
Also the card is very cold, even after some 3dmark the heatsink is not even warm.

Reply 1 of 18, by Disruptor

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Yes, it is useful when it has AGP.
Just think about a 486 with DVI -> HDMI output.
(However, due to the presence of a PCI to AGP bridge on this card, you will require a special patched BIOS on a 486)

Reply 4 of 18, by Sphere478

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Were there ever any matrox overclocking utilities or bios editors?

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 5 of 18, by Disruptor

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2023-01-25, 01:21:

I have a 486 build, and i'm actually using a 1600x1200 lcd monitor, would it fit better than the virge i'm actually using?
I doubt there will be any windows 3.11 driver

Does both monitor and graphics card have a DVI connector?
Which 486 motherboard do you have, and what processor?

Reply 6 of 18, by Nemo1985

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Sphere478 wrote on 2023-01-25, 02:34:

Were there ever any matrox overclocking utilities or bios editors?

I found nothing as bios editor but for overclocking powerstrip always worked fine for me, I also foung another utility: MGATweak but I wasn't able to use it properly (probably it support up to the g400 only).

Disruptor wrote on 2023-01-25, 02:39:
Nemo1985 wrote on 2023-01-25, 01:21:

I have a 486 build, and i'm actually using a 1600x1200 lcd monitor, would it fit better than the virge i'm actually using?
I doubt there will be any windows 3.11 driver

Does both monitor and graphics card have a DVI connector?
Which 486 motherboard do you have, and what processor?

Yes the g450 has dvi and vga connectors, the monitor has both too.
Motherboard: Asus PVI-486SP3
Cpu: Amd 5x86 133

Reply 7 of 18, by Sphere478

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I have one of these cards. How much overclocking headroom do they have exactly? (Not in a system atm)

Apparently, the g400 is supposed to be faster.

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 8 of 18, by The Serpent Rider

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G450 is somewhat tricky to OC due to weird multiplier thing going with core/memory ratop. But in general you can reach G400 Max level of performance. Well, not on PCI obviously, but close enough.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 9 of 18, by Putas

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2023-01-25, 00:49:

I tested it in 3d (3dmark suite) and it's noticeably slower than the agp version, I found out the pci version has decreased clock speed compared to the agp, despite using nice 5ns memory, the clock seems to be tied with the core and I wasn't able to find any utility for some overclocking.

Please, do share more. Is the clock 125/125? Reported by what program?

Reply 10 of 18, by Disruptor

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-01-25, 03:38:

G450 is somewhat tricky to OC due to weird multiplier thing going with core/memory ratop. But in general you can reach G400 Max level of performance. Well, not on PCI obviously, but close enough.

It runs with a PCI bus overclocked to 40 MHz, but it needs a cooler (no fan!) on the PCI-to-AGP-brigde then.

Reply 11 of 18, by igna78

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@Nemo1985
A little information: the G450 is to all intents and purposes a die shrink of the G400 (it adds nothing in particular) which however has not received drivers for Windows 3.x (while they exist for the G400 which however does not have a PCI variant).
The only possibility, with G450 under Windows 3.x, is to use the generic 256-color VGA driver (up to 800x600 if I remember correctly).
If you put on a 486 PCI build and intend to use Windows 3.x, if you choose Matrox as video card, you should prefer either Matrox Millennium/Mystique (correct or nearly correct for time) or G200; these cards are PCI version and have Windows 3.x drivers

Reply 12 of 18, by iraito

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DOS compatiblity doesn't correspond to the one reported in the wiki for matrox cards, i checked those games myself and by playing on an actually slow CPU the games show no issue whatsoever, for case uses i would go for a DX6/7 system no XP in tandem with a voodoo 2.

xjCZpgo.png

If you wanna check a blue ball playing retro PC games

Reply 13 of 18, by Errius

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Beware that there are at least three "Matrox G450" cards:

Matrox Marvel G450 eTV
Matrox Millennium G450 - this is the one you want for gaming. Avoid the others.
Matrox G450 MMS

Protagonist: Robot

Reply 14 of 18, by konc

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I use one on a desktop pentium 1. Compatibility is good enough for late DOS games, it delivers the expected matrox image quality, has a DVI port, is cheaper than other "rare vintage!!!11" pci cards, doesn't get too hot in the cramped slim desktop case interior next to a voodoo, is silent using passive cooling and not too long either. It definitely has a use for people who are not after overkill builds and fps numbers.

Reply 15 of 18, by Putas

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Errius wrote on 2023-01-25, 09:53:
Beware that there are at least three "Matrox G450" cards: […]
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Beware that there are at least three "Matrox G450" cards:

Matrox Marvel G450 eTV
Matrox Millennium G450 - this is the one you want for gaming. Avoid the others.
Matrox G450 MMS

Is it because the MMS has the bridge? What is wrong with eTV I wonder? But for gaming beware of G450 LE, because those have SDR memory.

Reply 16 of 18, by Errius

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I have a Marvel which I use for video capture of old VHS tapes, but I've never used it for gaming. The thought never crossed my mind. But now that you mention it, I'm curious to see how it performs. I assume since it is AGP it will outperform the PCI Millennium.

I don't have the G450 MMS, but do have the G200 and G100 MMS, which are very weak compared to their G200 Millennium/Mystique counterparts, so assume it's the same with the G450.

Protagonist: Robot

Reply 17 of 18, by Nemo1985

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igna78 wrote on 2023-01-25, 07:37:
@Nemo1985 A little information: the G450 is to all intents and purposes a die shrink of the G400 (it adds nothing in particular) […]
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@Nemo1985
A little information: the G450 is to all intents and purposes a die shrink of the G400 (it adds nothing in particular) which however has not received drivers for Windows 3.x (while they exist for the G400 which however does not have a PCI variant).
The only possibility, with G450 under Windows 3.x, is to use the generic 256-color VGA driver (up to 800x600 if I remember correctly).
If you put on a 486 PCI build and intend to use Windows 3.x, if you choose Matrox as video card, you should prefer either Matrox Millennium/Mystique (correct or nearly correct for time) or G200; these cards are PCI version and have Windows 3.x drivers

Thank you for those precious information, did anyone try to use the g400 drivers with windows 3.1 with the 450?

Putas wrote on 2023-01-25, 06:32:
Nemo1985 wrote on 2023-01-25, 00:49:

I tested it in 3d (3dmark suite) and it's noticeably slower than the agp version, I found out the pci version has decreased clock speed compared to the agp, despite using nice 5ns memory, the clock seems to be tied with the core and I wasn't able to find any utility for some overclocking.

Please, do share more. Is the clock 125/125? Reported by what program?

Powerstrip reports: 115 mhz for the core and 144 for memory (288 since it's ddr).
The AGP version of G450 reports: 125 and 166.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-01-25, 03:38:

G450 is somewhat tricky to OC due to weird multiplier thing going with core/memory ratop. But in general you can reach G400 Max level of performance. Well, not on PCI obviously, but close enough.

How so? If I overclock it just a bunch of megahertz (for both memory and core since they are tied) the card become very sloppy (no artifacts but windows become slow as hell, I have to reset the system because it ends being unresponsive).
According to the tests I did with 3dmark99 it does less than 3500 points while the agp version did more than 5000.
Fps are almost halved compared to agp version.

Some information about the card in case there are more pci versions:
Manufactured in 2007, it's a oem ibm card, the drivers need to be installed manually.
I found the bios version be the: 1.6 - 29 while the latest is 2.1 - 37
I'm still undecided if update it or not.
Memory chips are Samsung k4d26328k-uc50, there are 2 of them (16 mb each).
Marking says: F7003-0301 REV_A
MGIG45MDVP32D0E3DF