you can have 2 or more gpu but it's a pain to change between cards, that leads to incompatibility and instability
any s3 card that uses agp will have that problem because the issue is the chipset
you need to find in the bios an option to set agp to 1x or slow mode, if there's not such an option there may be some registry keys or something else, but the bios setting is the best way.
Nvidia and ATI cards detects the problematic agp implementation and will force agp 1x, and 3dfx cards don't use agp fully so they are not affected
lowering the acceleration level on windows doesn't help much either, you need to have it at the maximum acceleration to work right after you fixed the agp setting
pd: to enable metal api support in games you need to install the files, they are stored in vogonsdrivers if I'm not mistaken

Thanks so much! So there is nothing wrong with my system its just old compatibility issues.

So I can see my BIOS is REV F8.2, I'm pretty sure that's the latest as one (I'm guessing the naming convention here)

https://www.elhvb.com/supportbios.info/archiv … 5KV2/index.html

As for BIOS settings do I leave on - VideoBios Shadow
AGP Driving Value DA (Auto)
Leave off -
Video RAM Chacheable
AGP Fast Write
AGP Master 1 WS Write and Read
I will disable AGP-4 Mode as its default is enabled.

Would I be better off using older or newer VIA drivers?
Again, your input has been invaluable I am no longer losing my mind. I thought this would be a FUN project:D

well i had a lot of "fun" trying to fix these kind of issues on my machines
i don't recognize your motherboard, can you tell me the specs of your build?
for driver, I always use VIA 4in1 4.35, it's on the VIA website for download, when you install it, it will show AGP standard or AGP turbo, select standard
also make sure to use a fresh install of windows 98se, so if there are any issues, we can discard more easily
i suspect that agp-4x mode could be the main issue, my savage4 pro doesn't like agp4x boards and it doesn't enable it either

the machines i've used to test and "solve" the issue were
Soyo SY-5EH5 (VIA MVP3 chipset, it has AGP 1x mode in bios)
some gigabyte board with VIA PLE133 chipset (it doesn't have any setting in bios, but with the driver and PowerStrip you can force it to 1x mode)
various i440bx boards (all of them will run the savage4 with no issues)
PCChips M825LU (VIA KN266, this one has support for AGP4x, which the card technically supports, but is never enabled and forcing it makes the card unstable)

Like I've said already, just drop AGP GART driver to avoid any potential problems.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-08-06, 16:21:

Like I've said already, just drop AGP GART driver to avoid any potential problems.

Hiya I did try that and the system crashed after after win98 splash screen. I disabled 'VIA CPU to AGP Controller's Unless that isn't the right one.

weldum wrote on 2023-08-06, 16:01:

well i had a lot of "fun" trying to fix these kind of issues on my machines i don't recognize your motherboard, can you tell me […]
Show full quote

well i had a lot of "fun" trying to fix these kind of issues on my machines
i don't recognize your motherboard, can you tell me the specs of your build?
for driver, I always use VIA 4in1 4.35, it's on the VIA website for download, when you install it, it will show AGP standard or AGP turbo, select standard
also make sure to use a fresh install of windows 98se, so if there are any issues, we can discard more easily
i suspect that agp-4x mode could be the main issue, my savage4 pro doesn't like agp4x boards and it doesn't enable it either

the machines i've used to test and "solve" the issue were
Soyo SY-5EH5 (VIA MVP3 chipset, it has AGP 1x mode in bios)
some gigabyte board with VIA PLE133 chipset (it doesn't have any setting in bios, but with the driver and PowerStrip you can force it to 1x mode)
various i440bx boards (all of them will run the savage4 with no issues)
PCChips M825LU (VIA KN266, this one has support for AGP4x, which the card technically supports, but is never enabled and forcing it makes the card unstable)

Sure, I have a
Pentium III ( 886mhz with a fsb of 133mhz) Soltek sl-65kv2 Socket 370, Windows 98SE, 256mb RAM and an ESS1868F. All running from a 350w PSU.

Sure, I have a
Pentium III ( 886mhz with a fsb of 133mhz) Soltek sl-65kv2 Socket 370, Windows 98SE, 256mb RAM and an ESS1868F. All running from a 350w PSU.

fine, so your build is like my gigabyte board with the ple133...
that's bad, as getting it to work was very difficult
later I will track down that motherboard to see which adjustments needs to be made

weldum wrote on 2023-08-06, 18:45:

fine, so your build is like my gigabyte board with the ple133... that's bad, as getting it to work was very difficult later I w […]
Show full quote

Sure, I have a
Pentium III ( 886mhz with a fsb of 133mhz) Soltek sl-65kv2 Socket 370, Windows 98SE, 256mb RAM and an ESS1868F. All running from a 350w PSU.

fine, so your build is like my gigabyte board with the ple133...
that's bad, as getting it to work was very difficult
later I will track down that motherboard to see which adjustments needs to be made

Oh no!! Did I choose a bad mobo?Thanks, that would be really great. Be fantastic to get it working.

tobiasrieper wrote on 2023-08-06, 18:57:

Oh no!! Did I choose a bad mobo?Thanks, that would be really great. Be fantastic to get it working.

not necesarily a bad motherboard, just that the chipset had those problems
there's a registry tweak for both via and ali chipsets that forces agp 1x, but right now i can't find where it's located...

pd: if you need the drivers, send me a pm and i'll send you the ones i've used, including the metal driver
but, for some reason, the metal driver gets detected by my current antivirus (avg free) but not by others...

I have read here somehwere that a specific version of VIA 4in1 seems to force AGP 1x speed, I think it was version 4.17. Maybe try that one? Edit: It was in this post.

Or when installing 4in1, it will ask you whether to install the AGP driver in standard or turbo mode. I believe choosing standard mode will set a lower AGP speed.

To uninstall the AGP driver, run the 4in1 installer again, some versions of the installer will allow you to select AGP for deinstallation. If all else fails, boot to safe mode, run regedit and delete "viagart", I believe it's at "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\VxD" or similar.

asdf53 wrote on 2023-08-06, 20:02:

I have read here somehwere that a specific version of VIA 4in1 seems to force AGP 1x speed, I think it was version 4.17. Maybe try that one? Edit: It was in this post.

Or when installing 4in1, it will ask you whether to install the AGP driver in standard or turbo mode. I believe choosing standard mode will set a lower AGP speed.

To uninstall the AGP driver, run the 4in1 installer again, some versions of the installer will allow you to select AGP for deinstallation. If all else fails, boot to safe mode, run regedit and delete "viagart", I believe it's at "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\VxD" or similar.

Thank you! Will update this thread when I've done it. Accidentally cooked my HDD. Used a type 3 molex connector from my modular psu. Don't use them! They put out 12v instead of 5v and 3.3v instead of 5v on the respective pins so not good.

Wow, didn't know Savage4 had so many issues with AGP. Guess I was lucky that all my S3 cards (968, 775, and 397) were PCI.

dormcat wrote on 2023-08-06, 21:34:

Wow, didn't know Savage4 had so many issues with AGP. Guess I was lucky that all my S3 cards (968, 775, and 397) were PCI.

well not really, matrox, intel (740), ati and nvidia cards are affected too, it's simply the way agp was implemented in non-intel chipsets, even amd irongate was problematic too

weldum wrote on 2023-08-06, 21:37:

dormcat wrote on 2023-08-06, 21:34:

Wow, didn't know Savage4 had so many issues with AGP. Guess I was lucky that all my S3 cards (968, 775, and 397) were PCI.

well not really, matrox, intel (740), ati and nvidia cards are affected too, it's simply the way agp was implemented in non-intel chipsets, even amd irongate was problematic too

Just to update, all sorted!! Thanks so much for your input and help. Weldum nailed it with insight, driver recommendations and instructions. Perfect. Just installed Deus Ex, going to give it a whirl!