VOGONS


First post, by kinetix

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hi guys,
I have a S3 Virge DX card, a PT-75 from AOpen. I don't remember where I got it from years ago, I had never test it before, until some weeks back.
After cleaning and visual inspection it appeared to be mostly fine. Just a slightly bent pin (but not making contact with another) on the main chip, which I straightened and checked it was well soldered. It had a capacitor, the one you can see to the left of the PCI connector (attached image), almost unsoldered, but in good condition (checked), so I fixed it. I saw it has space for another capacitor on the opposite side of the PCI (right), but it didn't bring any. Initially I thought it was like this from the factory.

The problem is as follow.

Initially it did not give video signal, but the monitor responded. Latter it began to show the information of the VBIOS at boot, then nothing, that's all. The chip seemed to me that it was starting to get warmer than it should be, without doing any work, so I always turn off the PC just in case, I don't know how much warm/hot it gets.
After searching for images of the card, I saw that where a capacitor was missing, it was actually missing. No image shows its numbers but it seems to be the same as the other. So I put one just like it in that place.
But the card remains the same, it only shows the VBIOS info, then nothing.

Any idea about it?
How hot does the chip on these S3 get moments after booting up? It's for reference
May the the chip be damaged?

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Last edited by kinetix on 2023-08-05, 18:06. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 1 of 7, by The Serpent Rider

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If it's instantly gets noticeably hot, then it's probably was zapped by static electricity or short circuit happened, i.e. chip is damaged beyond repair and is leaking energy as heat.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 2 of 7, by kinetix

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-08-05, 17:07:

If it's instantly gets noticeably hot, then it's probably was zapped by static electricity or short circuit happened, i.e. chip is damaged beyond repair and is leaking energy as heat.

MMM....
I just downloaded the chip manual. the bent pins were 113 (PD59, data) and 144 (Vss, digital ground, bad...?).
I'm not sure, but if they had made contact I don't think it would affect it, it would be a pull to low on that pin, I think.
Although in direct contact, without a resistance, I don't know how it would be, if it would be that way or become a short.
I mean, if they did make contact, it didn't seem that way to me.
About the temp, the thermal specification says 125 degrees as max junction temp. will find a IR thermometer and check.
I'll keep checking

Reply 3 of 7, by Kekkula

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I've seen lately many videos where seemingly attached pins have actually been disconnected.
If the board already has missing capacitor and bend pins on the graphics chip, I would re-flow the chip, just to be sure.

Reply 4 of 7, by mkarcher

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kinetix wrote on 2023-08-05, 16:30:

Initially it did not give video signal, but the monitor responded. Latter it began to show the information of the VBIOS at boot, then nothing, that's all. The chip seemed to me that it was starting to get warmer than it should be, without doing any work,

The Virge (and Virge/DX) chips are not dynamically clocked. The core clock is initialized by the BIOS, and keeps the same even when S3D games are started. For a Virge/DX card to show "good" 3D performance, the core clock needs to be set at around 70 to 75 MHz. Virge chips do get warm at that clock frequency. Don't worry if the chip just heats up to around 45°C already during POST, that's normal. The classic Virge (86c325) doesn't get that warm, because officially, its core clock is limited to around 50 MHz, and most BIOSes do not initialize it any higher.

Reply 5 of 7, by kinetix

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mkarcher wrote on 2023-08-05, 20:44:

The Virge (and Virge/DX) chips are not dynamically clocked. The core clock is initialized by the BIOS, and keeps the same even when S3D games are started. For a Virge/DX card to show "good" 3D performance, the core clock needs to be set at around 70 to 75 MHz. Virge chips do get warm at that clock frequency. Don't worry if the chip just heats up to around 45°C already during POST, that's normal. The classic Virge (86c325) doesn't get that warm, because officially, its core clock is limited to around 50 MHz, and most BIOSes do not initialize it any higher.

the clock may be maxed out, but the functional units should be doing little to nothing, so few transistors switching, which means little power consumed and dissipated

Reply 6 of 7, by Putas

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kinetix wrote on 2023-08-06, 04:07:
mkarcher wrote on 2023-08-05, 20:44:

The Virge (and Virge/DX) chips are not dynamically clocked. The core clock is initialized by the BIOS, and keeps the same even when S3D games are started. For a Virge/DX card to show "good" 3D performance, the core clock needs to be set at around 70 to 75 MHz. Virge chips do get warm at that clock frequency. Don't worry if the chip just heats up to around 45°C already during POST, that's normal. The classic Virge (86c325) doesn't get that warm, because officially, its core clock is limited to around 50 MHz, and most BIOSes do not initialize it any higher.

the clock may be maxed out, but the functional units should be doing little to nothing, so few transistors switching, which means little power consumed and dissipated

Transistor switching made little difference back then.