Meatball wrote on 2023-08-30, 23:31:

During installation, the game presents a message stating a "Voodoo 2" has been detected, and states to make sure Glide v3 drivers are installed (which they are) ... However, that's as far as I can get. Patch 1.1 is installed. If the game doesn't lock up my system immediately, it does so as soon as I try to pick any option from the main menu.

Ouch. In my case, Test Drive 5 doesn't detect the Glide capabilities of my Voodoo 3 during installation, and merely sees it as a Direct3D card. The game works fine in that mode, but if I try to manually switch to Glide (by using the aptly named Voodoo2.exe) everything becomes unstable. It does start, and I can get into a race, but the game crashes if I try to go back to the main menu.

That's why I thought it might be better for someone with an actual Voodoo 2 to test it. Very odd that it doesn't like your Obsidian card either. AFAIK, that's basically a Voodoo 2 SLI on a single board.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-31, 04:57:

Meatball wrote on 2023-08-30, 23:31:

During installation, the game presents a message stating a "Voodoo 2" has been detected, and states to make sure Glide v3 drivers are installed (which they are) ... However, that's as far as I can get. Patch 1.1 is installed. If the game doesn't lock up my system immediately, it does so as soon as I try to pick any option from the main menu.

Ouch. In my case, Test Drive 5 doesn't detect the Glide capabilities of my Voodoo 3 during installation, and merely sees it as a Direct3D card. The game works fine in that mode, but if I try to manually switch to Glide (by using the aptly named Voodoo2.exe) everything becomes unstable. It does start, and I can get into a race, but the game crashes if I try to go back to the main menu.

That's why I thought it might be better for someone with an actual Voodoo 2 to test it. Very odd that it doesn't like your Obsidian card either. AFAIK, that's basically a Voodoo 2 SLI on a single board.

I don't know for sure if it didn't like the Obsidian Card (which this one is the sandwich designed X-24 Voodoo2 SLI with a DEC PCI Bridge). It didn't even like the onboard ATI card in Direct3D I tried. Test Drive 5 just didn't like this particular system. I'll try a different system with a Voodoo2.

I was able to get Test Drive 5 working on a Voodoo2 (single - I didn't test SLI), a Banshee, and a Rage XL. The fogging option wasn't available on the RageXL Direct3D, but 32-bit color is available.

I didn't notice any graphical differences, except on a 3dfx card with fogging activated in Direct3D mode, the polygons would blackout completely and I'd have to reset the game. This leads me to believe the fogging in Test Drive 5 performs like the fogging in Virtual-On (PowerVR) - and it might as well be called gamma for polygons. The polygons take on a greyish appearance with fogging. The biggest difference is with Glide overall - light glare casting off of the car is dulled (which I find obnoxious, distracting, and unrealistic in behavior while in motion in Direct3D). The game runs great in both modes. I also tried an earlier Voodoo2 driver, but there was no change in visuals.

So, Glide vs. Direct3D didn't produce any meaningful visible differences. , but I'd most likely choose to play in Glide mode with fogging 'off' forgoing the greyish appearance and benefiting from the dulled glare of Glide. Of course, you could also play the game in 1st person view, so there's that alternative for either mode to eliminate glare.

EDIT: I played with different cars and different tracks and the glare is the same; it all depends on the slope/curves of the car and whether you're going uphill, downhill, and so on. So, except for the greyish hue of fogging, Direct3D and Glide are all but the same.

Meatball wrote on 2023-09-04, 17:05:

I was able to get Test Drive 5 working on a Voodoo2 (single - I didn't test SLI), a Banshee, and a Rage XL.

Thanks a bunch for the detailed tests! I'll put Test Drive 5 in the "equal" category.

P.S.

Another game that might be of interest to you, or someone else with a Voodoo 5, is Blade of Darkness. Apparently, it has glitches on Voodoo 3 and Banshee cards, at least per the PC Gaming Wiki.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-09-04, 21:50:

Thanks a bunch for the detailed tests! I'll put Test Drive 5 in the "equal" category. […]
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Meatball wrote on 2023-09-04, 17:05:

I was able to get Test Drive 5 working on a Voodoo2 (single - I didn't test SLI), a Banshee, and a Rage XL.

Thanks a bunch for the detailed tests! I'll put Test Drive 5 in the "equal" category.

P.S.

Another game that might be of interest to you, or someone else with a Voodoo 5, is Blade of Darkness. Apparently, it has glitches on Voodoo 3 and Banshee cards, at least per the PC Gaming Wiki.

I'll check it on a Voodoo4 4500. I'm in the middle of building another system with the Voodoo4 as I type this.

I feel like a lot of straw men are drawn in this thread.
Although I respect Joe’s detailed work, the material posted kind of does not sufficiently justify the verdict, no?
I understand why we must often use nv forceware 45.23 to avoid rendering glitches and to use ati fog hack but this is some new level.

Granted, the differences can be rather subtle in some games. While in others, the visual advantage of Glide is more pronounced.

For what it's worth, everyone who contributed to this thread tried to be objective. All findings were documented with screenshots which illustrate the benefits of Glide, where applicable. Lastly, we also debunked a bunch of games which were previously thought to look better in Glide mode. After testing confirmed that this was not the case, those titles were placed in the "equal" category.

It will take me some time to get screenshots ready (maybe this weekend?), but I do know that these two games also look better when run under Glide compared to Direct3D:

-Wing Commander: Prophecy (some special effects not available when running in Direct3D mode)

-Descent: Freespace (Direct3D renderer dramatically reduces texture resolution unless game's registry entries are tweaked)

MadMac_5 wrote on 2024-03-22, 20:37:

It will take me some time to get screenshots ready (maybe this weekend?), but I do know that these two games also look better when run under Glide compared to Direct3D:

-Wing Commander: Prophecy (some special effects not available when running in Direct3D mode)

-Descent: Freespace (Direct3D renderer dramatically reduces texture resolution unless game's registry entries are tweaked)

Sounds good.

If you manage to line up some comparison screenshots which showcase the differences, I can add those games to the list.

Got no screenshots to back this up, but Fifa 98/Fifa World Cup 98 and, if I remember correctly, Fifa 99 suffer from the same fog/atmospheric effects issue as NFS3.

And also, from the top of my head, Populous 3 has some texture/sprite/text transparency issues when played on my FX5500 vs. voodoo2.

revolstar wrote on 2024-03-23, 20:30:

Got no screenshots to back this up, but Fifa 98/Fifa World Cup 98 and, if I remember correctly, Fifa 99 suffer from the same fog/atmospheric effects issue as NFS3.

Interesting, I wasn't even aware that Fifa games used fog. I assume it shows up as a weather effect that can occur during a match? Since those games were made by EA, just like the NFS series, it's possible they used the same approach for fog. I'll take a look at that when time permits.

And also, from the top of my head, Populous 3 has some texture/sprite/text transparency issues when played on my FX5500 vs. voodoo2.

Possibly related to this? If so, that's not strictly a Glide vs. D3D issue, just a bug which commonly occurs on GeForce FX cards.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-24, 02:43:

Interesting, I wasn't even aware that Fifa games used fog. I assume it shows up as a weather effect that can occur during a match? Since those games were made by EA, just like the NFS series, it's possible they used the same approach for fog. I'll take a look at that when time permits.

That's right, on voodoos you get visible fog/snow/rain during matches.

One more thing I noticed in NFS3 is that the progress bar on the loading screen before each race is a nice and smooth gradient on the voodoo and it's quite choppy, with apparent color banding on the geforce.

As for Populous 3, yeah, that might be it, but if memory serves me well, there was also a problem with sprites, i.e. the braves and the shaman had black borders/halos around them, so it's not only about text corruption.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-23, 04:54:

MadMac_5 wrote on 2024-03-22, 20:37:

It will take me some time to get screenshots ready (maybe this weekend?), but I do know that these two games also look better when run under Glide compared to Direct3D:

-Wing Commander: Prophecy (some special effects not available when running in Direct3D mode)

-Descent: Freespace (Direct3D renderer dramatically reduces texture resolution unless game's registry entries are tweaked)

Sounds good.

If you manage to line up some comparison screenshots which showcase the differences, I can add those games to the list.

I'm having a rough time finding an old copy of HyperSnap DX as recommended by Joseph_Joestar. Any leads on where to find an old trial version of it would be appreciated!

MadMac_5 wrote on 2024-03-28, 03:12:

I'm having a rough time finding an old copy of HyperSnap DX as recommended by Joseph_Joestar. Any leads on where to find an old trial version of it would be appreciated!

Older trial (shareware) versions of HyperSnap DX can be found on archive.org.

You might be able to purchase a license key for those from the official website by contacting their support staff.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-23, 04:54:

MadMac_5 wrote on 2024-03-22, 20:37:

It will take me some time to get screenshots ready (maybe this weekend?), but I do know that these two games also look better when run under Glide compared to Direct3D:

-Wing Commander: Prophecy (some special effects not available when running in Direct3D mode)

-Descent: Freespace (Direct3D renderer dramatically reduces texture resolution unless game's registry entries are tweaked)

Sounds good.

If you manage to line up some comparison screenshots which showcase the differences, I can add those games to the list.

Found another source claiming the same on Wing Commander Prophecy. https://youtu.be/WU9s7ysFbs8?si=w6XS6WEAZBfCXjj1&t=928

I have a suggestion just because I think it’d be fun: Daikatana. I have no clue what it even supports but I am curious. On a more serious note, you might also try ff7.

midicollector wrote on 2024-03-29, 03:57:

I have a suggestion just because I think it’d be fun: Daikatana. I have no clue what it even supports but I am curious. On a more serious note, you might also try ff7.

FF7 uses Direct3D while Daikatana uses OpenGL. Neither of them support Glide.

As mentioned before, while I do appreciate suggestions, I expect a modicum of research to be put in before doing so. Some kind of reference or anecdotal evidence for Glide being better in a game would be nice as well.

Ah that’s too bad, how about ultima 9 or Arabian nights?

Diakatana should bei DeusEX engine, which is Unreal engine...should support more than opengl or am I wrong here?
Daikatana looks really beutiful, but it does not run stable, it always crashes in the first level, don't know what the issue is here.

dr.zeissler wrote on 2024-03-29, 08:10:

Diakatana should bei DeusEX engine, which is Unreal engine...should support more than opengl or am I wrong here?
Daikatana looks really beutiful, but it does not run stable, it always crashes in the first level, don't know what the issue is here.

Daikatana doesn't use the Unreal engine, and it came out a few months before Deus Ex.

Again, do your due diligence people.