Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Discussion about old graphics cards, monitors and video related things.

Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby kixs » 2017-7-08 @ 23:05

vlask wrote:Tried to do something about bad graphics cards - entry episode must be about famous S3 ViRGE. So if you thinking about buying one, rather watch this video. It might save you some money :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0ljjj4LTDc


Nice idea :)
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby vlask » 2017-7-09 @ 09:25

Any idea what to do for more textures? In this state it looks like minecraft mode...... :lol:

https://youtu.be/GbgyHu4yqZc
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby mrau » 2017-7-09 @ 11:16

maybe due to driver version? i saw a vid of it playing unreal with textures;
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby vlask » 2017-7-09 @ 12:34

mrau wrote:maybe due to driver version? i saw a vid of it playing unreal with textures;


Well unreals done, it shows textures, but i would not call it "playing".

Now i rechecked vintage3d and see that i was looking at G100 screenshot, not Mystique - his seems to be same, so i guess it won't be better..
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby Tetrium » 2017-7-09 @ 14:32

vlask wrote:Any idea what to do for more textures? In this state it looks like minecraft mode...... :lol:

https://youtu.be/GbgyHu4yqZc

I think that actually looks interesting, it shows more of how the explosions are done?
This would (for me at least) be a WAY better way to learn about the more inner works of how games work then reading some tutorial.
The explosions start big and get smaller till about half the starting size, then disappear.

How did you do this? :P
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby leileilol » 2017-7-09 @ 19:59

It was already well known dynamic lights are colored additive cones in GLQuake (for speed). The readme for it also states that iirc
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby vlask » 2017-7-09 @ 20:11

Tetrium wrote:
vlask wrote:Any idea what to do for more textures? In this state it looks like minecraft mode...... :lol:

https://youtu.be/GbgyHu4yqZc

I think that actually looks interesting, it shows more of how the explosions are done?
This would (for me at least) be a WAY better way to learn about the more inner works of how games work then reading some tutorial.
The explosions start big and get smaller till about half the starting size, then disappear.

How did you do this? :P


Not me, its just card plus wrapper. Might be similar interesting in other OpenGL games...Best for looking under all these textures is Matrox MGA Millennium. Many games won't run, but these working will show you everything - just very slowly....

https://youtu.be/4tO_fhCrTwc
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby leileilol » 2017-7-09 @ 20:22

If you use the Techland driver and edit the opengl32.ini it should come with (check the root of Crime Cities' folder for that) you should be able to tweak some options for it to look better, like the permedia-faking to enable some of id's alpha-blended support fallbacks
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby Putas » 2017-7-13 @ 07:34

vlask wrote:Any idea what to do for more textures? In this state it looks like minecraft mode...... :lol:

https://youtu.be/GbgyHu4yqZc


The card is not rendering less textures, it just cannot blend lightmaps.

About the Virge video, you should not just say it does not feature alpha blending, that is quite inaccurate.
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby DracoNihil » 2017-7-13 @ 13:28

That text to speech in the video is so uncanny sounding...

By the way, Shogo even mentions the S3 ViRGE.

Image

Runs "decent" in 320x240.
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby vlask » 2017-7-13 @ 19:58

Putas wrote:About the Virge video, you should not just say it does not feature alpha blending, that is quite inaccurate.


On the left big fonts - Final reality, on right side detection done by 3DMark 99.
Image

Ok so apparently there are many types of alpha blending, but these most used by games are not supported by ViRGE, so from gamers view its like it has no support. Dunno which simple games used that right kind of blending supported by ViRGE. Guess that it were games with S3D support, but probably only in S3D mode, because croc in D3D looks bad.

Btw in aida is everything with alpha blending detected as Not Supported....:
Decal-Alpha Texture Blending
Modulate-Alpha Texture Blending
Texture Alpha Blending
Vertex Alpha Blending
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby Jo22 » 2017-7-14 @ 01:59

Hi folks, some time ago I read something interesting about the ViRGE's D3D drivers..
As far as I remember, it was about the fact they were either badly coded and / or the D3D architecure was
somewhat less than perfect for the internal workings of the ViRGE.

Sorry, can't remember all of the details right now. But perhaps there's some truth within;
I mean, the ViRGE was pre-dating DirectX, after all. So the S3D API was what it was intended for.

IMHO another bad thing that broke the ViRGE's neck was it's own feature-richness.
I don't think all these features were ever meant to be activated simultaneously.
Which, of couse, many games did. In 320x200 they often got away with this (more or less),
but in Windows in 640x480 and Direct3D.. :(

Just for comparison, StarFox for SNES was launched in February 1993 and was highly awarded for its raw polygon graphics (SuperFX 1).
The ViRGE was roughly released 2 years later, but was so much more advanced in terms of features (filtering, texture mapping,
perspective correction, shading, etc.). The NVidia NV1, released the same year, couldn't even do triangles (just quads). ;)

Edit: I like the videos! Keep going! :)
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby Putas » 2017-7-17 @ 12:00

vlask wrote:Ok so apparently there are many types of alpha blending, but these most used by games are not supported by ViRGE, so from gamers view its like it has no support.

Sounds to me like for all the artifacts you do not see what works.

vlask wrote:Btw in aida is everything with alpha blending detected as Not Supported....:


I find it quite silly to depend on software so new for ancient cards.
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby BigDaddyM » 2017-7-17 @ 17:21

What driver did you used? I've tested few S3 cards and find out that fastD3D driver is good for all virges but not for virge 325. For this card I used superuni from Putas site and it gave me better image quality and higher performance, 170 3Dmark vs 190 @65MHz stock. Only this card survived FPS test in 3Dmark99, rest of virges did not

fastd3d driver:
https://ibb.co/dfS07v
https://ibb.co/diHQ7v

superuni driver:
https://ibb.co/gXHE0F
https://ibb.co/ntfOua
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby vlask » 2017-8-07 @ 14:56

2nd episode with Matrox Mystique 220 is out.
Now with 3 more minutes :lol: and voiceover from real human (i hope he is, didn't asked him about his home planet...) - vogon member F2bnp (thanks).

https://youtu.be/Bn8Bd61Zj-I
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby F2bnp » 2017-8-07 @ 15:30

Hopefully you guys like it!

Thanks for letting me be a part of this, vlask!
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby keropi » 2017-8-07 @ 16:07

just watched it and it's great - the real voiceover does make it way better than the virge one!
great job both of you
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby Reputator » 2017-8-08 @ 03:02

Sounds really good with the new narration! You really did a fantastic job F2bnp!

And brilliant work as always vlask. I'm definitely subbing to this!

Just an FYI, gouraud is pronounced like "gorrow", with emphasis on the second syllable. Here's a spoken example.
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby F2bnp » 2017-8-08 @ 03:08

Reputator wrote:Sounds really good with the new narration! You really did a fantastic job F2bnp!

And brilliant work as always vlask. I'm definitely subbing to this!

Just an FYI, gouraud is pronounced like "gorrow", with emphasis on the second syllable. Here's a spoken example.


Ah thanks, I was wondering if that was the way to pronounce it. Good to know for future endeavors!
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Re: Something for lovers of bad video cards (youtube)

Postby leileilol » 2017-8-08 @ 10:36

No thanks i'll stick to Gore Awed Shading.
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