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Best DOS video card?

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Reply 180 of 205, by auron

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realms of the haunting is another game that might be possibly worth to add to the compatibility matrix. i found that it can exhibit an annoying flickering cursor in certain modes depending on what card is used. offhand i remember that matrox millennium cards were preferable over s3 vision at least for the VESA LFB modes.

Reply 181 of 205, by Dochartaigh

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Gona wrote on 2012-06-24, 20:13:
These chips are work without problem both on CRT and LCD/TFT: Trident 3Dimage9750 (975) Trident 3Dimage9850 (985) S3 Savage4 Pro […]
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These chips are work without problem both on CRT and LCD/TFT:
Trident 3Dimage9750 (975)
Trident 3Dimage9850 (985)
S3 Savage4 Pro (86C397)
S3 Savage4 Xtreme (86C398)
S3 Savage2000 (86C410)
ARK Logic ARK2000PV (with UniVBE)

nVIDIA chips between RIVA TNT2 and GeForce3 Ti 500 are also very good (I have found only two game with light problem).

When researching what video cards are the best for DOS I was super happy to read that my MMX 200MHz (M575 MB) has a Trident 3Dimage 9750 PCI card which tops this list! Especially since I was going to try out a LCD monitor on it for the first time (always used CRT's before).

But my first time trying it I'm having an issue. In Win98SE, on DOS games like Duke Nukem 3D, when set to 640x480 or 800x600 (320 by 2XX is fine) the native-60Hz LCD can't display the 75Hz image correctly:

vsMwvrTl.jpg
GQWel0tl.jpg

It does is on both my new LCD monitors (HP E190i and Dell SP1908FPT; both 19" 1280x1024 LCD's). Video card is set to 60Hz in Windows. Weird thing is when I boot into pure DOS, same resolutions/card/monitors, it's perfect:

gs06YrJl.jpg
j42fmndl.jpg

Any ideas? My other computer (P3 800MHz with GeForce 256 DDR AGP) plays Duke3D perfect inside Windows at any resolution on these same exact LCD monitors. If it's a fault of the Trident not playing nice inside Win98, I was going to pickup a TNT2 M64 PCI version since that's mentioned a bunch in this topic (found a 'Diamond Stealth III S540 S3 Savage4 Pro+' 32mb PCI card too, which is also on this list...).

Reply 183 of 205, by paulo_becas

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Dochartaigh wrote on 2020-03-26, 05:14:
When researching what video cards are the best for DOS I was super happy to read that my MMX 200MHz (M575 MB) has a Trident 3Di […]
Show full quote
Gona wrote on 2012-06-24, 20:13:
These chips are work without problem both on CRT and LCD/TFT: Trident 3Dimage9750 (975) Trident 3Dimage9850 (985) S3 Savage4 Pro […]
Show full quote

These chips are work without problem both on CRT and LCD/TFT:
Trident 3Dimage9750 (975)
Trident 3Dimage9850 (985)
S3 Savage4 Pro (86C397)
S3 Savage4 Xtreme (86C398)
S3 Savage2000 (86C410)
ARK Logic ARK2000PV (with UniVBE)

nVIDIA chips between RIVA TNT2 and GeForce3 Ti 500 are also very good (I have found only two game with light problem).

When researching what video cards are the best for DOS I was super happy to read that my MMX 200MHz (M575 MB) has a Trident 3Dimage 9750 PCI card which tops this list! Especially since I was going to try out a LCD monitor on it for the first time (always used CRT's before).

But my first time trying it I'm having an issue. In Win98SE, on DOS games like Duke Nukem 3D, when set to 640x480 or 800x600 (320 by 2XX is fine) the native-60Hz LCD can't display the 75Hz image correctly:

It does is on both my new LCD monitors (HP E190i and Dell SP1908FPT; both 19" 1280x1024 LCD's). Video card is set to 60Hz in Windows. Weird thing is when I boot into pure DOS, same resolutions/card/monitors, it's perfect:

Any ideas? My other computer (P3 800MHz with GeForce 256 DDR AGP) plays Duke3D perfect inside Windows at any resolution on these same exact LCD monitors. If it's a fault of the Trident not playing nice inside Win98, I was going to pickup a TNT2 M64 PCI version since that's mentioned a bunch in this topic (found a 'Diamond Stealth III S540 S3 Savage4 Pro+' 32mb PCI card too, which is also on this list...).

I think what is happening is a driver issue. When you launch the games you do it from windows right?
Try to see if you can find other windows drivers for windows 98 for your card.

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Reply 184 of 205, by JoeCorrado

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I am pretty sure, without reading through all of the responses already posted, that these would have been mentioned already- BUT, here they are:

TSENG Labs ET4000/W32p ISA
Cirrus Logic CL-GD5428 ISA

Pair either of these with a Voodoo 2 card (or two in SLI even better) and you just cannot go wrong.

-- Regards, Joe

Expect out of life, that which you put into it.

Reply 185 of 205, by Dochartaigh

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kolderman wrote on 2020-03-26, 06:36:

I have a virtually identical pc/lcd setup to you, with a s3 virge GX instead, and it works fine. I think the trio/virge are the most compatible dos cards of all.

paulo_becas wrote on 2020-03-26, 09:30:

I think what is happening is a driver issue. When you launch the games you do it from windows right?
Try to see if you can find other windows drivers for windows 98 for your card.

Yes, the problem I'm having is when I launch the game from inside Windows, It's fine when launched from 'reboot in DOS' mode. It's fine when I try it on another computer, in Windows, on these same 2x monitors.

I think it might be drivers too...but the monitors are saying they're getting the same exact 800x600 or 640x480 @75Hz signal in Windows AND Dos, but it's only malfunctioning in Windows... Which still makes no sense to me. There's really no other flavor of signal that Windows could be giving the monitors which DOS wouldn't, especially when it seems like the monitor itself is doing the translation from 75Hz into it's native 60Hz (which is is somehow prevented from doing inside Windows???). Does Windows throw some other signals to the monitor to tell it to do certain things? Then in DOS those signals aren't sent?

That also leaves me to a question about Windows settings themselves. When I right click on Desktop, go to settings, advanced, then go to the Trident video card tab, it says it's outputting 60Hz. Why would the monitors STILL be getting a 75Hz signal? And on the other Windows 98 computer (where this somehow works) it's also seeing a 75Hz signal (with a totally different video card brand)? Is this feature broke in Windows 98, period?

Reply 186 of 205, by paulo_becas

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Well, i don't think the refresh rate as anything to do with this.
You can try to do the following, uninstall video card drivers and let windows be without any driver, i know it sucks, but,maybe, when you launch the game without the drivers it works fine, this way you know for sure if it's the drivers or not.
Since this is a DOS game it might work.

AMD Am486/Am5x86-P75 DX5 133 Mhz-64Mb Ram
S3 Trio 64V2DX 2 Mb
Soundblaster AWE64 Gold+Music Quest+Roland MT-32
LAN-3Com EtherLink
1.44 3,5 Epson Drive+1.2 5,25 Mitsumi drive+Iomega Zip 256Mb
8gb HDD
4Gb CF HDD
HP CDRW 9200
http://jp-retro.blogspot.com

Reply 187 of 205, by Gona

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Dochartaigh wrote on 2020-03-26, 05:14:
When researching what video cards are the best for DOS I was super happy to read that my MMX 200MHz (M575 MB) has a Trident 3Di […]
Show full quote
Gona wrote on 2012-06-24, 20:13:
These chips are work without problem both on CRT and LCD/TFT: Trident 3Dimage9750 (975) Trident 3Dimage9850 (985) S3 Savage4 Pro […]
Show full quote

These chips are work without problem both on CRT and LCD/TFT:
Trident 3Dimage9750 (975)
Trident 3Dimage9850 (985)
S3 Savage4 Pro (86C397)
S3 Savage4 Xtreme (86C398)
S3 Savage2000 (86C410)
ARK Logic ARK2000PV (with UniVBE)

nVIDIA chips between RIVA TNT2 and GeForce3 Ti 500 are also very good (I have found only two game with light problem).

When researching what video cards are the best for DOS I was super happy to read that my MMX 200MHz (M575 MB) has a Trident 3Dimage 9750 PCI card which tops this list! Especially since I was going to try out a LCD monitor on it for the first time (always used CRT's before).

But my first time trying it I'm having an issue. In Win98SE, on DOS games like Duke Nukem 3D, when set to 640x480 or 800x600 (320 by 2XX is fine) the native-60Hz LCD can't display the 75Hz image correctly:

vsMwvrTl.jpg
GQWel0tl.jpg

It does is on both my new LCD monitors (HP E190i and Dell SP1908FPT; both 19" 1280x1024 LCD's). Video card is set to 60Hz in Windows. Weird thing is when I boot into pure DOS, same resolutions/card/monitors, it's perfect:

gs06YrJl.jpg
j42fmndl.jpg

Any ideas? My other computer (P3 800MHz with GeForce 256 DDR AGP) plays Duke3D perfect inside Windows at any resolution on these same exact LCD monitors. If it's a fault of the Trident not playing nice inside Win98, I was going to pickup a TNT2 M64 PCI version since that's mentioned a bunch in this topic (found a 'Diamond Stealth III S540 S3 Savage4 Pro+' 32mb PCI card too, which is also on this list...).

I have made all of my tests in pure DOS (MS-DOS 6.22).
I'm also say that this will be Windows driver issue.
In that case, I cannot make recommendation because I have no experience since I never play DOS games under Windows.

Videocard compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI3DCIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix

Reply 188 of 205, by auron

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it's a bit of a bummer that 320x200 in duke3d isn't included in the matrix, as i have just found that S3 cards exhibit a rather annyoing horizontal streaking issue here that appears with certain effects, such as the plane crashing in e1m1 or the flashing when picking up medkits/ammo. it's pretty visible on the sky or the inventory HUD. i have tested this on ELSA S3 864 and 868 cards and could not get rid of it by using the different video modes in duke3d.cfg, even when loading s3vbe, 320x200 would always have this issue.

so it makes me wonder what other cards could have this problem... my 4mb millennium with 1998 BIOS displays 320x200 fine in duke, however unfortunately the BIOS there does not support the 320x400 vesa 2.0 mode.

Reply 189 of 205, by The Serpent Rider

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however unfortunately the BIOS there does not support the 320x400 vesa 2.0 mode.

Use UniVBE.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
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Reply 190 of 205, by auron

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i avoid that one because it likes to set some arbitrary refresh rates without user input. something similar actually also occured on the elsa s3 864 card, it would randomly change refresh rates back and forth in duke3d. not sure what they were putting in that video BIOS.

Reply 191 of 205, by Mad_Wolf

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kolderman wrote on 2020-03-26, 06:36:

I have a virtually identical pc/lcd setup to you, with a s3 virge GX instead, and it works fine. I think the trio/virge are the most compatible dos cards of all.

Also some tridents vga cards but they are not as common as s3

Reply 192 of 205, by filipetolhuizen

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I used to have a S3 968 and it worked fine with Duke3d in all resolutions. The only card that I had major issues with Duke3d was the Permedia2. Using UniVBE fixed the garbled colours, but for some reason, all versions of UniVBE crashed all my games in every computer that I had.

Reply 193 of 205, by The Serpent Rider

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i avoid that one because it likes to set some arbitrary refresh rates without user input

UniVBE has utility to set refresh rates for all VESA modes.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 194 of 205, by auron

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did anyone here test chasm: the rift? on a 4mb matrox millennium i found that under DOS it crashes every time with a runtime error 200, which is really confusing as it made me first think of the CPU speed related issue. a 9x VDM will just close without any message. NOLFB didn't change anything... s3 cards run the game fine.

would be interesting to know if this only affects matrox or if this is yet another somewhat obscure game with poor compatibility across the board. my card is updated to the 1998 bios.

Reply 195 of 205, by Oetker

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auron wrote on 2020-06-27, 03:04:

did anyone here test chasm: the rift? on a 4mb matrox millennium i found that under DOS it crashes every time with a runtime error 200, which is really confusing as it made me first think of the CPU speed related issue. a 9x VDM will just close without any message. NOLFB didn't change anything... s3 cards run the game fine.

would be interesting to know if this only affects matrox or if this is yet another somewhat obscure game with poor compatibility across the board. my card is updated to the 1998 bios.

It works fine on my p3-550 with Rage Pro graphics in pure Dos.

Reply 196 of 205, by The Serpent Rider

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would be interesting to know if this only affects matrox or if this is yet another somewhat obscure game with poor compatibility across the board

Matrox had some bugs with video modes in obscure games and benchmarks. But I would test with a different card, before drawing conclusions.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 197 of 205, by filipetolhuizen

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Matrox factory BIOSes had poor DOS compatibility. Updates usually fixed most issues, but if yours already updated, then must be a card related issue. Maybe the game is trying to run on a mode that your card doesn't support and the S3 does. Try changing the resolution with the S3 card and running it with the Matrox again. Try the patches from the official website to see if they fix your issue:
https://web.archive.org/web/20041020140543/ht … om/games/chasm/

Reply 198 of 205, by auron

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game is fully updated with the csmtcpip.exe file already. even when testing it in dosbox it wouldn't run without hexediting ps10.exe, really annoying game to get running.

thought i had addressed the possible VESA 2.0 mode issue with NOLFB already, but i did try setting 640x480 and reverting to the matrox card, still same result. i think it defaults to regular 13h anyway so this shouldn't be the issue here.

edit: continuing this subject in a new thread: chasm: the rift and matrox cards

Reply 199 of 205, by Gona

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auron wrote on 2020-06-27, 03:04:

did anyone here test chasm: the rift? on a 4mb matrox millennium i found that under DOS it crashes every time with a runtime error 200, which is really confusing as it made me first think of the CPU speed related issue. a 9x VDM will just close without any message. NOLFB didn't change anything... s3 cards run the game fine.

would be interesting to know if this only affects matrox or if this is yet another somewhat obscure game with poor compatibility across the board. my card is updated to the 1998 bios.

Runtime error 200 is not a graphics card related issue but CPU speed related issue.
Try to run on a P1 MMX 233 or slower (or K6 500 or slower) machine.
I think Oetker has a patched exe (or patch your exe too). You can Google it:
turbo pascal runtime error 200 patch

Videocard compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI3DCIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix