PowerVR Fun Thread

Discussion about old graphics cards, monitors and video related things.

PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby swaaye » 2010-1-21 @ 23:04

Well maybe some fun. Does anyone have any PowerVR cards? Series 2 or Kyro, or the oldies PCX 1/2? Report in with your experiences plz.

RG100?! :D

I've thought about buying a card, but just can't will up the excitement. Testimonials from my fellow retro crazies are almost as much fun as playing with the hardware anyway!

Actually the first and only time I've ever seen PowerVR hardware in action first hand is with Dreamcast and I bought one of those early last year.... That is an impressive little machine.
swaaye
Moderator
 
Posts: 7046
Joined: 2002-7-22 @ 21:24
Location: WI, USA

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby bushwack » 2010-1-21 @ 23:41

I have 3 PCX 2 cards: a pair of VideoLogic Apocalypse 3Dx cards with driver CD and a bare Matrox M3D card.
Grab the driver CD here: http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=23627

I've been looking for a Apocalypse 5D on ebay for at least 5 years now...nothing. :blah: I'm intested in the Kyro cards, just don't want to pay for them. :happy:

Here is an ad I cut out of a June 1997 CGW magazine.

Image
Last edited by bushwack on 2010-11-16 @ 00:14, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
bushwack
Oldbie
 
Posts: 717
Joined: 2009-9-17 @ 18:38
Location: USA

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby swaaye » 2010-1-22 @ 02:40

You just reactivated some brain cells. I remember looking at the Apocalyspe 5D back then. It pops into my head occasionally, during momentary retro bouts.

Apoc 5D was the PCX2 + Tseng ET6100, I believe.
swaaye
Moderator
 
Posts: 7046
Joined: 2002-7-22 @ 21:24
Location: WI, USA

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby bushwack » 2010-1-22 @ 04:44

swaaye wrote:Apoc 5D was the PCX2 + Tseng ET6100, I believe.

It also has sound! :surprised:
User avatar
bushwack
Oldbie
 
Posts: 717
Joined: 2009-9-17 @ 18:38
Location: USA

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby retro games 100 » 2010-1-22 @ 09:55

Unfortunately, I don't have any PowerVR cards. :sad: I had a look on ebay, and found a 3D model -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0396347819

There seems to be a lot of interest in it, judging by the Q&A section at the bottom. One Q comes from someone called Timber (I'm sure that name rings a bell - something to do with graphics cards or voodoo cards, or something), and he enquires about the 5D model.
User avatar
retro games 100
l33t
 
Posts: 4481
Joined: 2008-5-03 @ 17:46

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby cdoublejj » 2010-1-22 @ 10:08

so what did these do boost you gfx card so you could do 3d gaming? i imagine a regular 3d gfx card would out do this?
User avatar
cdoublejj
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1105
Joined: 2007-2-04 @ 19:48
Location: USA, MO

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby Amigaz » 2010-1-22 @ 10:18

Waiting for this to arrive

http://www.tradera.com/Matrox-Power-VR- ... _105036200

We'll be able to have real PowerVR feast soon :D
Image

Image
User avatar
Amigaz
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1696
Joined: 2007-3-03 @ 09:01
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby leileilol » 2010-1-22 @ 11:02

PCX-2 : You Will Hate This Card. Drivers for Win9x only, alpha blend only, and I think it's the card responsible for most 1998 games having to look like crap. Supports SGL which Unreal can do fine and a bunch of other exclusive games. No OpenGL support, that's just horrifically wrappered for Quake, Quake2 and Hexen2. I had a fan page in the works since its limitations and broken drivers lead to curiosities.
Game potential: Up to early 1999, I think Midtown Madness was the last game to have special support for this chipset.

Neon250 : Never tried it, it has PCX-2-ish drivers of similar compatibility. Supposed to have all the blend modes this time around though. Never had it, and was a flop so it was hard to obtain in the first place. Not a lot to write home about, don't buy into the lame delusional hype Dreamcast fans tell you about this 'great' PowerVR chipset (same chipset used in DC, but in card form and arrived way too late).
Game potential: Up to mid-2000, I THINK DirectX8 killed this one. I never seen any neon250 compatibility notes since then.

Kyro 2 : Probably the first 'normal' card that's up to scratch in basic TNT2-ish compatibility with OpenGL and Direct3D, a very VERY good card for retro gaming (16-bit dithering is a sight to see, very little graphics corruption, SDL friendly, and IIRC supports paletted textures). It HAS NO SGL SUPPORT AT ALL, so don't expect to play any of the old PowerVR exclusives on it, and the old minigl wrappers fail on it as well. It is also the only card with XP drivers and Linux drivers. One of the features it is hyped for is its 'hidden surface removal', which did jack squat to help the poor framerates and everything uses visplanes/lists/trees to avoid overdraw via software anyway.
Game potential: Up to late 2002-2003. By then hardware T&L was taking off, the Kyro2 couldn't do that and the popular thing to do was to SLOWLY EMULATE T&L via 3d Analyze! but this lead to many anomalies. Also it has hard freezes with UnrealEngine2 games. Well, at least the fillrate and texture units were good. Bloom and fullscreen framebuffer effects will slaughter framerate, so not very next-gen proof even if it ever had HW T&L or even pixel shading.

The drivers of all 3 cards aren't very optimized, they WILL DEMAND A GOOD FPU so don't do something stupid like put it in a Cyrix or a 486. A Pentium II 233 is the target system for this.

You can also use the PCX2 and the Kyro2 at the same time without a driver or hardware conflict. They won't WORK TOGETHER, but they can work, so you can do your feasting on the same machine. Windows 98SE *highly* recommended.

As for PowerVR... you know the iPhone? Yep, that's PowerVR all over the place. Mobile market is what they're playing dominatrix as now.
Voodoo2s aren't 100mhz stock
Geforce256 isn't released as a beta on New Years '99 under the Quadro brand
386DX vs SX isn't about a missing FPU
DOS gaming isn't a bilinear 320x200 16:10
DOS PCs aren't better than the Macintosh
Old PCs aren't 'aesthetic'
User avatar
leileilol
l33t++
 
Posts: 9045
Joined: 2006-12-16 @ 18:03

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby Menkau_ra » 2010-1-22 @ 16:57

What did you mean by "old PowerVR exclusives"? Were there any games that worked only on PowerVR?
I always wanted to buy this card, even now days. Just wandering to test it :)
User avatar
Menkau_ra
Newbie
 
Posts: 93
Joined: 2009-11-22 @ 20:52
Location: USA

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby swaaye » 2010-1-22 @ 18:29

leileilol wrote:don't buy into the lame delusional hype Dreamcast fans tell you about this 'great' PowerVR chipset (same chipset used in DC, but in card form and arrived way too late).

Well compared to its predecessors, Dreamcast is mind blowing. :D 480p, VGA out, >30fps in lots of games.... Compared to N64 and PS1 = hearty laughter.

There is a lot of info over on Beyond3D about the old PowerVR hardware. There is at least one PowerVR engineer that hangs out there. The Neon 250 (PowerVR 250) and the DC (PowerVR CLX) are similar, but the DC has a number of significant advantages.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.ph ... st+neon250
* CLX had a bigger tile size
* CLX Had better support for palette textures
* CLX Had some custom fading tricks that were often in arcade systems
* CLX acted as the memory controller for the DC
* PVR250 had VGA/2D engine and a PCI interface.


The PC components were always screwed from the start because they late and often lacked features. Kyro was the best obviously but it didn't have hardware T&L, a fatal flaw because that was super hyped at the time. It is unfortunate that the cards weren't more timely in their arrivals because the tech is fascinating. The tiled rendering is incredibly efficient, much better than the typical pixel pipeline designs of the time. Even with dramatically lower fillrate than GeForce 2, the Kyro could keep up pretty well.

Of course, when they bombed, the driver development went nowhere. No reason to funnel money into a lost cause.
Last edited by swaaye on 2010-1-22 @ 22:18, edited 29 times in total.
swaaye
Moderator
 
Posts: 7046
Joined: 2002-7-22 @ 21:24
Location: WI, USA

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby exxe » 2010-1-22 @ 18:30

there are 3 Apocalyspe cards
the normal PowerVR
PowerVR + Tseng
PowerVR + Tseng + Sound

somewhere i have a picture......
edit found it
Image



in my collection the only PowerVR card is a (Boxed) Matrox M3D
Attachments
Apoc5D.jpg
(118.58 KiB) Downloaded 584 times
User avatar
exxe
Newbie
 
Posts: 59
Joined: 2010-1-09 @ 17:18
Location: germany

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby swaaye » 2010-1-22 @ 22:02

Menkau_ra wrote:What did you mean by "old PowerVR exclusives"? Were there any games that worked only on PowerVR?
I always wanted to buy this card, even now days. Just wandering to test it :)


As you can see on the above boxes, games with support include:

-MechWarrior 2 PowerVR edition
-Tomb Raider
-Wipeout XL
-Ultimate Race Pro

And Unreal and UT have SGL support.

Not exclusives of course.... I'm not aware of any exclusives.
swaaye
Moderator
 
Posts: 7046
Joined: 2002-7-22 @ 21:24
Location: WI, USA

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby leileilol » 2010-1-22 @ 22:39

swaaye wrote:And Unreal and UT have SGL support.

Only Unreal and Klingon Honor Guard are UE1 games that support SGL1 (PCX-2).

I should point out the additive effects in Unreal get blended with alpha instead, detail textures are dropped, and there are no stencil shadows (E3 '97 hype was wrong)


There are a few PCX-2 only games such as MoonRacer and Ultim@te Race (not pro).
Voodoo2s aren't 100mhz stock
Geforce256 isn't released as a beta on New Years '99 under the Quadro brand
386DX vs SX isn't about a missing FPU
DOS gaming isn't a bilinear 320x200 16:10
DOS PCs aren't better than the Macintosh
Old PCs aren't 'aesthetic'
User avatar
leileilol
l33t++
 
Posts: 9045
Joined: 2006-12-16 @ 18:03

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby swaaye » 2010-1-23 @ 19:58

UT99 does have SGL files (SGLDrv.dll and SGLDrv.int). Are you saying that it doesn't support PCX-2? Is it Neon 250 only?

within UnrealTournament.ini
Code: Select all
[SglDrv.SglRenderDevice]
Translucency=True
VolumetricLighting=False
ShinySurfaces=False
Coronas=True
HighDetailActors=False
ColorDepth=16
DetailTextures=False
FastUglyRefresh=False
TextureDetailBias=Near
VertexLighting=False


PowerVR SGL doesn't show up in the 3d hardware selection box, however.
swaaye
Moderator
 
Posts: 7046
Joined: 2002-7-22 @ 21:24
Location: WI, USA

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby leileilol » 2010-1-23 @ 22:11

It has them, but they're more like null stubs if anything. They don't function when you uncomment them. Same for the rest of the UE1.5 games.



UPDATE: They work with Kernelex, but UT regresses them to a point in a later version.
Last edited by leileilol on 2011-5-23 @ 08:22, edited 1 time in total.
Voodoo2s aren't 100mhz stock
Geforce256 isn't released as a beta on New Years '99 under the Quadro brand
386DX vs SX isn't about a missing FPU
DOS gaming isn't a bilinear 320x200 16:10
DOS PCs aren't better than the Macintosh
Old PCs aren't 'aesthetic'
User avatar
leileilol
l33t++
 
Posts: 9045
Joined: 2006-12-16 @ 18:03

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby Davros » 2010-1-23 @ 22:55

retro games 100 wrote: One Q comes from someone called Timber (I'm sure that name rings a bell


http://www.tga3dx.com/
User avatar
Davros
l33t
 
Posts: 2475
Joined: 2004-3-01 @ 03:08

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby swaaye » 2010-1-24 @ 01:47

Timber's a 3D machine. It's too bad that he doesn't hang out with us in our little forum here.
swaaye
Moderator
 
Posts: 7046
Joined: 2002-7-22 @ 21:24
Location: WI, USA

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby exxe » 2010-1-24 @ 09:07

Timber here Timber there
i also have a big collection, okay most are 3dfx cards and i dont have so many prototypes and Engineering Samples

here is my M3D
Image Image
User avatar
exxe
Newbie
 
Posts: 59
Joined: 2010-1-09 @ 17:18
Location: germany

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby bushwack » 2010-1-24 @ 23:49

Found a Matrox M3D ad, this one frm CGW Nov. 1997.

Image
User avatar
bushwack
Oldbie
 
Posts: 717
Joined: 2009-9-17 @ 18:38
Location: USA

Re: PowerVR Fun Thread

Postby leileilol » 2010-1-25 @ 04:36

That ad also has a version where it shows HEXEN II BLACKMARSH next to the Ultim@te Race box.

I'm getting GBs of old 3d game demos to try on the PCX-2 right now.
Voodoo2s aren't 100mhz stock
Geforce256 isn't released as a beta on New Years '99 under the Quadro brand
386DX vs SX isn't about a missing FPU
DOS gaming isn't a bilinear 320x200 16:10
DOS PCs aren't better than the Macintosh
Old PCs aren't 'aesthetic'
User avatar
leileilol
l33t++
 
Posts: 9045
Joined: 2006-12-16 @ 18:03

Next

Return to Video

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests