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VGA Capture Thread

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Reply 1140 of 1218, by leileilol

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Anyone got some handy VGA-corrective LUTs for OBS?

Here's my attempt at one (from viewing original.png through VGA capture then attempting to reverse the changes, per channel). Of course, as is the nature of VGA hardware, not every result will be the same.

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apsosig.png
long live PCem

Reply 1141 of 1218, by NamelessPlayer

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TehGuy wrote on 2022-01-16, 14:40:
NamelessPlayer wrote on 2022-01-16, 02:20:
TehGuy wrote on 2022-01-15, 22:16:

So as someone looking to record some DOS things (and possibly Dreamcast and N64), this card would work provided I do a lil poking (and possibly source a breakout cable)? A capture card is one of the last things I've got on my list as apparently the monitor I've got can handle just about any res I've thrown at it, unless running 720x400@70, 320x200@70, etc. via the Nvidia custom resolution testing stuff isn't representative of anything working.

EDIT: also what revision is it? I'm finding a number of different ones via eBay and am starting to wonder what the differences would be.

Trust me, you DON'T want an Intensity Pro if you don't already have one (mine was a freebie). Buy a used Datapath VisionRGB-E1S/E2S off of eBay, or if you can afford it, a Magewell Pro Capture DVI or AIO (they're hard to find used, unlike the HDMI ones, and pricing is very consistent across sellers).

So uh let's say, hypothetically, I've got a Pro 2 for like $10 because it advertised 1080p60 and that's good enough for recording my PS4, switch, or PowerMac (yay DVI-D) and came with the breakout cable so I can slap my N64 or Wii/GC on there and I just needed the device to show up in OBS (give or take some tinkering). How much DOS stuff am I about to not be able to do, if any at all? I mainly keep to the later-ish end of the DOS spectrum, I think, with stuff like Epic Pinball, Xargon, Doom, Duke3D, etc. and Windows 98. GPU also happens to have an S-VIDEO on it if that changes anything (because previously mentioned breakout cable comes with a S-VID in), though I'm aware that's not as great as VGA.

EDIT: would one of these Gefen boxes make things play nice?

In that case, I'd get any sort of scaler that adapts PC resolutions to a modern screen mode like 1080p60, something widely used in the broadcast and film industries that Blackmagic would have a preset for in the capture card settings. You should have plenty of options.

I haven't looked too closely into the Gefen boxes in question to see if they do any rescaling.

If the S-Video output on the DOS system works, that may technically be a solution just to see whatever that computer is outputting, but you'd be losing out on image quality and resolution (it's still standard-def video, 480i/576i max, and colors are degraded from being combined into one chroma signal). You really want something that captures RGB (of which VGA is really just RGBHV) so as to preserve image quality and support higher resolutions, or better yet if your PC has a modern enough graphics card, DVI.

By the way, Power Mac with a DVI output? That'll be easy mode. Macs are far more consistent in their video signal output and generally just letterbox the image if you're running at a higher desktop resolution, the sole exception being if you're running anything that's 3D-accelerated (QD3D RAVE, Glide, OpenGL, doesn't really matter), at which point it behaves more like PCs in switching resolutions to whatever's specified in-game.

Since you mention Duke Nukem 3D (and potentially other Build engine games), that raises the possibility for VESA SVGA modes there as well - it's not like Doom where you're stuck in base VGA Mode 13h the whole time in its original release.

Reply 1142 of 1218, by TehGuy

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NamelessPlayer wrote on 2022-01-16, 19:24:
In that case, I'd get any sort of scaler that adapts PC resolutions to a modern screen mode like 1080p60, something widely used […]
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TehGuy wrote on 2022-01-16, 14:40:
NamelessPlayer wrote on 2022-01-16, 02:20:

Trust me, you DON'T want an Intensity Pro if you don't already have one (mine was a freebie). Buy a used Datapath VisionRGB-E1S/E2S off of eBay, or if you can afford it, a Magewell Pro Capture DVI or AIO (they're hard to find used, unlike the HDMI ones, and pricing is very consistent across sellers).

So uh let's say, hypothetically, I've got a Pro 2 for like $10 because it advertised 1080p60 and that's good enough for recording my PS4, switch, or PowerMac (yay DVI-D) and came with the breakout cable so I can slap my N64 or Wii/GC on there and I just needed the device to show up in OBS (give or take some tinkering). How much DOS stuff am I about to not be able to do, if any at all? I mainly keep to the later-ish end of the DOS spectrum, I think, with stuff like Epic Pinball, Xargon, Doom, Duke3D, etc. and Windows 98. GPU also happens to have an S-VIDEO on it if that changes anything (because previously mentioned breakout cable comes with a S-VID in), though I'm aware that's not as great as VGA.

EDIT: would one of these Gefen boxes make things play nice?

In that case, I'd get any sort of scaler that adapts PC resolutions to a modern screen mode like 1080p60, something widely used in the broadcast and film industries that Blackmagic would have a preset for in the capture card settings. You should have plenty of options.

I haven't looked too closely into the Gefen boxes in question to see if they do any rescaling.

If the S-Video output on the DOS system works, that may technically be a solution just to see whatever that computer is outputting, but you'd be losing out on image quality and resolution (it's still standard-def video, 480i/576i max, and colors are degraded from being combined into one chroma signal). You really want something that captures RGB (of which VGA is really just RGBHV) so as to preserve image quality and support higher resolutions, or better yet if your PC has a modern enough graphics card, DVI.

By the way, Power Mac with a DVI output? That'll be easy mode. Macs are far more consistent in their video signal output and generally just letterbox the image if you're running at a higher desktop resolution, the sole exception being if you're running anything that's 3D-accelerated (QD3D RAVE, Glide, OpenGL, doesn't really matter), at which point it behaves more like PCs in switching resolutions to whatever's specified in-game.

Since you mention Duke Nukem 3D (and potentially other Build engine games), that raises the possibility for VESA SVGA modes there as well - it's not like Doom where you're stuck in base VGA Mode 13h the whole time in its original release.

One (or two) more questions, then, and I think I should be good.

1. Would DVI on the DOS machine change anything? Assuming it works in an AGP 2x slot, I have an AGP 6600 I could dunk in there.

2. what kind of testing do you put your devices through, if you don't mind my asking? I've managed to grab one of those Epiphan DVI2PCIe cards you mentioned (if the seller wasn't lying) and would like to put it through the works.

So even if #1 doesn't change anything on its own, hopefully pairing it with #2 would make things all nice and lovely (and remove any need for additional adapters)... or at the very least #2 working.

Win98+DOS: C3 Ezra-T 1.0AGHz / P3-S 1.26GHz, 128MB RAM, AWE64 + Orpheus + Audigy 2 ZS, Ti 4200, 128GB SD card
Win XP SP3: C2Q 9650, 4GB RAM, X-Fi Titanium, GTX 750
PowerMac G4 QS 800MHz + GeForce4 Ti4200, OS 9
PowerMac G5 DP 1.8Ghz + ATi x800 XT, Leopard

Reply 1144 of 1218, by rpz

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Any recommendations on going from VGA > DVI?
Currently using Datapath 1ES and VCS, which is giving great results. Just wondering if there is a way to get even more clean captures by using a specific cable/adapter?

Thanks in advance. This thread is gold.

Reply 1145 of 1218, by NamelessPlayer

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TehGuy wrote on 2022-01-16, 20:16:
One (or two) more questions, then, and I think I should be good. […]
Show full quote
NamelessPlayer wrote on 2022-01-16, 19:24:
In that case, I'd get any sort of scaler that adapts PC resolutions to a modern screen mode like 1080p60, something widely used […]
Show full quote
TehGuy wrote on 2022-01-16, 14:40:

So uh let's say, hypothetically, I've got a Pro 2 for like $10 because it advertised 1080p60 and that's good enough for recording my PS4, switch, or PowerMac (yay DVI-D) and came with the breakout cable so I can slap my N64 or Wii/GC on there and I just needed the device to show up in OBS (give or take some tinkering). How much DOS stuff am I about to not be able to do, if any at all? I mainly keep to the later-ish end of the DOS spectrum, I think, with stuff like Epic Pinball, Xargon, Doom, Duke3D, etc. and Windows 98. GPU also happens to have an S-VIDEO on it if that changes anything (because previously mentioned breakout cable comes with a S-VID in), though I'm aware that's not as great as VGA.

EDIT: would one of these Gefen boxes make things play nice?

In that case, I'd get any sort of scaler that adapts PC resolutions to a modern screen mode like 1080p60, something widely used in the broadcast and film industries that Blackmagic would have a preset for in the capture card settings. You should have plenty of options.

I haven't looked too closely into the Gefen boxes in question to see if they do any rescaling.

If the S-Video output on the DOS system works, that may technically be a solution just to see whatever that computer is outputting, but you'd be losing out on image quality and resolution (it's still standard-def video, 480i/576i max, and colors are degraded from being combined into one chroma signal). You really want something that captures RGB (of which VGA is really just RGBHV) so as to preserve image quality and support higher resolutions, or better yet if your PC has a modern enough graphics card, DVI.

By the way, Power Mac with a DVI output? That'll be easy mode. Macs are far more consistent in their video signal output and generally just letterbox the image if you're running at a higher desktop resolution, the sole exception being if you're running anything that's 3D-accelerated (QD3D RAVE, Glide, OpenGL, doesn't really matter), at which point it behaves more like PCs in switching resolutions to whatever's specified in-game.

Since you mention Duke Nukem 3D (and potentially other Build engine games), that raises the possibility for VESA SVGA modes there as well - it's not like Doom where you're stuck in base VGA Mode 13h the whole time in its original release.

One (or two) more questions, then, and I think I should be good.

1. Would DVI on the DOS machine change anything? Assuming it works in an AGP 2x slot, I have an AGP 6600 I could dunk in there.

2. what kind of testing do you put your devices through, if you don't mind my asking? I've managed to grab one of those Epiphan DVI2PCIe cards you mentioned (if the seller wasn't lying) and would like to put it through the works.

So even if #1 doesn't change anything on its own, hopefully pairing it with #2 would make things all nice and lovely (and remove any need for additional adapters)... or at the very least #2 working.

I need to do more testing on the DVI front, but I did notice that when I captured my P4EE/6800 Ultra box with the USB Capture DVI Plus, the signal info suggested that it was spitting out 1920x1080@60Hz while it was still on the BIOS - something even I found a bit hard to believe. Maybe it upscales the 720x400 mode to whatever it thinks is the display's native resolution based on EDID.

My quick-and-dirty first impression testing generally centers around a few things:
-Amiga 4000 native video output (still waiting on my MNT ZZ9000 RTG card with HDMI scandoubler/scaler for the native video modes), which comprises a not-quite-standard 31 KHz 640x480 VGA mode (MULTISCAN: Productivity) in Workbench that I prefer to use AGA systems in, combined with the usual smattering of 15 KHz PAL progressive and interlaced modes that most of the demos and games use, maybe even a touch of NTSC modes for Mac emulation.

I like to use Captured Dreams (The Black Lotus) as one of my choice demos for testing, because it uses some video modes that don't quite line up with what Workbench provides and require some fine tuning from the capture card as a result, as well as switching from progressive to interlaced and back on the fly, most notably as a high-res artwork of a drug pill fades in. The fact that it switches during the fade-in instead of during a black screen makes transitions painfully obvious on a non-CRT monitor if you don't have everything dialed in just right for every mode, though Magewell is remarkably quick about it while Datapath blanks out for a moment.

-PS2 component video output, running Chrono Cross since it's one of the PS1 games noted to use 240p gameplay and 480i menus, thus being another solid test of progressive/interlaced switching on the fly. Said menus also have some UI elements that become noticeably blurred if you don't use weave deinterlacing (something that technically really isn't deinterlacing at all) instead of blend deinterlacing, as if Square only saw fit to draw those pixels on one field.

-The aforementioned P4EE/GeForce 6800 Ultra retro build that usually boots into XP (and can also boot into 98SE), desktop currently set to 1920x1080@60Hz. I've done relatively little testing here, as I was mostly concerned about being able to see the BIOS and make adjustments as needed or run native DOS, but I'll probably go more in-depth there later, including testing VGA output instead of DVI.

There are other systems I'd like to run through both the Datapath and Magewell cards that I just haven't gotten around to yet for physical setup reasons, mainly my original Xbox with component cables for 720p and 1080i capture, and my small fleet of Power Macs, mainly the Power Mac 9600 kitted out with a Rage 128 and a PC Compatibility Card (which could theoretically run in single-monitor passthrough for more on-the-fly mode switch testing, but I lack a DE-15M VGA to DA-15F Mac monitor adapter), but also my MDD Power Mac G4 that I crammed a Voodoo2 SLI setup into because Virtual PC 3.0 can use it to some extent.

Also, it's become quite apparent that the Mac Pro 3,1 with the fastest possible configuration of twin quad-core LGA771 Xeons with 3.2 GHz Penryn cores just isn't cut out for 1080p60 capture, regardless of whether I use the Datapath or Magewell devices (with a USB 3.0 PCIe card in the latter case). The CPUs just don't have enough single-threaded performance to handle it. I'll do further testing with the VisionRGB-E2S on my 4.5 GHz 4770K desktop, though its location makes setup of other computers a bit difficult.

There is much testing to be done, which is why I'm not yet declaring a formal review, but I'm definitely hoping to get a system going so that I can write up a list of setup tips and tricks for the hardware I've tested (really wish I could add the DVI2PCIe to that list, but I've already spent too much money on the VisionRGB-E2S and USB Capture DVI Plus combined), as well as start up a regular retrocomputing stream with authentic hardware as opposed to emulation.

Reply 1146 of 1218, by TehGuy

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NamelessPlayer wrote on 2022-01-17, 12:42:
I need to do more testing on the DVI front, but I did notice that when I captured my P4EE/6800 Ultra box with the USB Capture DV […]
Show full quote
TehGuy wrote on 2022-01-16, 20:16:
One (or two) more questions, then, and I think I should be good. […]
Show full quote
NamelessPlayer wrote on 2022-01-16, 19:24:
In that case, I'd get any sort of scaler that adapts PC resolutions to a modern screen mode like 1080p60, something widely used […]
Show full quote

In that case, I'd get any sort of scaler that adapts PC resolutions to a modern screen mode like 1080p60, something widely used in the broadcast and film industries that Blackmagic would have a preset for in the capture card settings. You should have plenty of options.

I haven't looked too closely into the Gefen boxes in question to see if they do any rescaling.

If the S-Video output on the DOS system works, that may technically be a solution just to see whatever that computer is outputting, but you'd be losing out on image quality and resolution (it's still standard-def video, 480i/576i max, and colors are degraded from being combined into one chroma signal). You really want something that captures RGB (of which VGA is really just RGBHV) so as to preserve image quality and support higher resolutions, or better yet if your PC has a modern enough graphics card, DVI.

By the way, Power Mac with a DVI output? That'll be easy mode. Macs are far more consistent in their video signal output and generally just letterbox the image if you're running at a higher desktop resolution, the sole exception being if you're running anything that's 3D-accelerated (QD3D RAVE, Glide, OpenGL, doesn't really matter), at which point it behaves more like PCs in switching resolutions to whatever's specified in-game.

Since you mention Duke Nukem 3D (and potentially other Build engine games), that raises the possibility for VESA SVGA modes there as well - it's not like Doom where you're stuck in base VGA Mode 13h the whole time in its original release.

One (or two) more questions, then, and I think I should be good.

1. Would DVI on the DOS machine change anything? Assuming it works in an AGP 2x slot, I have an AGP 6600 I could dunk in there.

2. what kind of testing do you put your devices through, if you don't mind my asking? I've managed to grab one of those Epiphan DVI2PCIe cards you mentioned (if the seller wasn't lying) and would like to put it through the works.

So even if #1 doesn't change anything on its own, hopefully pairing it with #2 would make things all nice and lovely (and remove any need for additional adapters)... or at the very least #2 working.

I need to do more testing on the DVI front, but I did notice that when I captured my P4EE/6800 Ultra box with the USB Capture DVI Plus, the signal info suggested that it was spitting out 1920x1080@60Hz while it was still on the BIOS - something even I found a bit hard to believe. Maybe it upscales the 720x400 mode to whatever it thinks is the display's native resolution based on EDID.

My quick-and-dirty first impression testing generally centers around a few things:
-Amiga 4000 native video output (still waiting on my MNT ZZ9000 RTG card with HDMI scandoubler/scaler for the native video modes), which comprises a not-quite-standard 31 KHz 640x480 VGA mode (MULTISCAN: Productivity) in Workbench that I prefer to use AGA systems in, combined with the usual smattering of 15 KHz PAL progressive and interlaced modes that most of the demos and games use, maybe even a touch of NTSC modes for Mac emulation.

I like to use Captured Dreams (The Black Lotus) as one of my choice demos for testing, because it uses some video modes that don't quite line up with what Workbench provides and require some fine tuning from the capture card as a result, as well as switching from progressive to interlaced and back on the fly, most notably as a high-res artwork of a drug pill fades in. The fact that it switches during the fade-in instead of during a black screen makes transitions painfully obvious on a non-CRT monitor if you don't have everything dialed in just right for every mode, though Magewell is remarkably quick about it while Datapath blanks out for a moment.

-PS2 component video output, running Chrono Cross since it's one of the PS1 games noted to use 240p gameplay and 480i menus, thus being another solid test of progressive/interlaced switching on the fly. Said menus also have some UI elements that become noticeably blurred if you don't use weave deinterlacing (something that technically really isn't deinterlacing at all) instead of blend deinterlacing, as if Square only saw fit to draw those pixels on one field.

-The aforementioned P4EE/GeForce 6800 Ultra retro build that usually boots into XP (and can also boot into 98SE), desktop currently set to 1920x1080@60Hz. I've done relatively little testing here, as I was mostly concerned about being able to see the BIOS and make adjustments as needed or run native DOS, but I'll probably go more in-depth there later, including testing VGA output instead of DVI.

There are other systems I'd like to run through both the Datapath and Magewell cards that I just haven't gotten around to yet for physical setup reasons, mainly my original Xbox with component cables for 720p and 1080i capture, and my small fleet of Power Macs, mainly the Power Mac 9600 kitted out with a Rage 128 and a PC Compatibility Card (which could theoretically run in single-monitor passthrough for more on-the-fly mode switch testing, but I lack a DE-15M VGA to DA-15F Mac monitor adapter), but also my MDD Power Mac G4 that I crammed a Voodoo2 SLI setup into because Virtual PC 3.0 can use it to some extent.

Also, it's become quite apparent that the Mac Pro 3,1 with the fastest possible configuration of twin quad-core LGA771 Xeons with 3.2 GHz Penryn cores just isn't cut out for 1080p60 capture, regardless of whether I use the Datapath or Magewell devices (with a USB 3.0 PCIe card in the latter case). The CPUs just don't have enough single-threaded performance to handle it. I'll do further testing with the VisionRGB-E2S on my 4.5 GHz 4770K desktop, though its location makes setup of other computers a bit difficult.

There is much testing to be done, which is why I'm not yet declaring a formal review, but I'm definitely hoping to get a system going so that I can write up a list of setup tips and tricks for the hardware I've tested (really wish I could add the DVI2PCIe to that list, but I've already spent too much money on the VisionRGB-E2S and USB Capture DVI Plus combined), as well as start up a regular retrocomputing stream with authentic hardware as opposed to emulation.

Ha, sounds like I've got my work cut out for me if I'm to test to the same degree... Thanks for your help and advice the past day or two

rpz wrote on 2022-01-17, 12:40:

Any recommendations on going from VGA > DVI?
Currently using Datapath 1ES and VCS, which is giving great results. Just wondering if there is a way to get even more clean captures by using a specific cable/adapter?

Thanks in advance. This thread is gold.

IIRC VGA to DVI can be passively done provided you're using DVI-I (really common, come in single-link and dual-link varieties) or DVI-A (I've never seen in the wild, analogue only), or are you looking for something like a scaler?

Win98+DOS: C3 Ezra-T 1.0AGHz / P3-S 1.26GHz, 128MB RAM, AWE64 + Orpheus + Audigy 2 ZS, Ti 4200, 128GB SD card
Win XP SP3: C2Q 9650, 4GB RAM, X-Fi Titanium, GTX 750
PowerMac G4 QS 800MHz + GeForce4 Ti4200, OS 9
PowerMac G5 DP 1.8Ghz + ATi x800 XT, Leopard

Reply 1147 of 1218, by DVark09

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Hey there!
I read some of this thread and I'm wondering what would be the best (and possibly cheapest) solution for my setup.
I'm looking for a way to display and capture DOS footage from my PII machine. I tried once on Aliexpress with a cheap VGA to HDMI adapter but it didn't work, despite stating 720x400@70 in the description.
Initially I was looking at the Gefen VGA to DVI as I already have a DVI to HDMI cable and an HDMI capture card. Then I saw the Atlona AT-HD500 but that would cost more, since I'm in the EU.
The Gefen would come out at ~80$ and the Atlona would be about ~130$ right now (both from eBay).
What would be the best solution without breaking the bank? (Not planning to spend more than 100$ if possible)
I have seen that some of you guys use PCIe capture cards but that is out of the way for me, since I don't have free PCIe slots.
Is there a place for europeans to shop for these kinds of stuff? Shipping+import costs make the price at least double in both cases.
I think I can manage duplicating the view with my graphics card, since it's a Matrox G450 dual VGA card. If not, is there a general recommendation for vga duplicating? I'm quite hesitant on this part as my old CRT can't fit on my desk properly :\
I'm open to other solutions as well.
Specs of the machine (if relevant):
PII 400MHz
Se440BX2 with a Yamaha YMF740 on it
128MB memory
Matrox G450 dual VGA

Reply 1148 of 1218, by TehGuy

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Pleasantly surprised to find out that, with the S-Video A/V addon, the DVI2PCIe can handle composite signals just fine. My N64 and GC have zero issues displaying over that, and my Dreamcast was fine via VGA to DVI cable; none of those seem to have any delay between controller input and what I see in the OBS preview. The smallest overall image it'll give OBS is 640x480, but it looks like it'll accept resolutions smaller than that and just put borders where it needs to; N64 seems to be letterboxed, my GameCube is just bordered on all sides but that might be on a per-game basis, still gives me hope that something like 320x200 is going to work just fine. Device figures everything out without any fiddling unlike the Intensity Pro I got earlier, at least any further fiddling than shifting the video horizontally or vertically (needed a horz shift on that N64 capture).

Still need to test with DOS as the config software says it'll support strange things like 720x400@85 with an option to add custom resolutions/timings (which might solve the border problem if I can get them right), but I'm too lazy to unplug the beast and haul it over and mess with all that until tomorrow

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Win98+DOS: C3 Ezra-T 1.0AGHz / P3-S 1.26GHz, 128MB RAM, AWE64 + Orpheus + Audigy 2 ZS, Ti 4200, 128GB SD card
Win XP SP3: C2Q 9650, 4GB RAM, X-Fi Titanium, GTX 750
PowerMac G4 QS 800MHz + GeForce4 Ti4200, OS 9
PowerMac G5 DP 1.8Ghz + ATi x800 XT, Leopard

Reply 1149 of 1218, by imi

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question for anyone capturing with a datapath card, I've recently encountered an issue and so far haven't found a solution...

some SVGA resolutions seem to be "shifted downwards", so a few rows of pixels missing off the bottom and a narrow black bar on top, in 640x480 it's 5 pixels and in 800x600 it's just one pixel
sometimes it won't even let me shift the picture up enough to reveal the missing area, but if it does there is actually still no capture there, it just duplicates whatever the bottom pixel row was at the moment, if I try to increase the vertical capture resolution it just artifacts below i.e. 480 pixels so wherever in the chain those pixels just get "lost".

I hadn't really noticed that until now cause I was doing mainly DOS and VGA games at 13h and never encountered something like that, only recently when I played Descent 2 I noticed that but attributed it to the game at the time... but now I tried Crusader: No Remorse and got exactly the same issue, same thing in Duke3D and even in Windows.

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I tried eliminating variables today, I tried 3 different GPUs, RIVA 128, TGUI9680 and a Matrox Millenium with the latter clearly having the nicest picture ^^ but while I had to adjust settings between all of them for a pixel perfect capture all of them exhibited exactly the same behaviour at those higher resoutions.
tried both channels on my VisionRGB E2S, tried with and without VGA switch, nothing really made a difference.
it's the same in VCS and OBS via RGBeasy or just normal capture, I just can't get those bottom pixels to get captured.

Anyone ever encountered this and knows a solution?

Reply 1150 of 1218, by vvbee

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imi wrote on 2022-02-06, 23:48:

Anyone ever encountered this and knows a solution?

I've seen the same with a VisionRGB-E1S. I don't think the VisionRGB-PRO2 had the problem, but I can't remember for sure.

It should be possible to fine-tune the positioning via the video card's control panel (if supported - Matrox at least should) or something like PowerStrip?

Reply 1151 of 1218, by darry

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vvbee wrote on 2022-02-07, 04:27:
imi wrote on 2022-02-06, 23:48:

Anyone ever encountered this and knows a solution?

I've seen the same with a VisionRGB-E1S. I don't think the VisionRGB-PRO2 had the problem, but I can't remember for sure.

It should be possible to fine-tune the positioning via the video card's control panel (if supported - Matrox at least should) or something like PowerStrip?

If only capturing under Windows stuff under Windows, PowerStrip is an option. I'm not sure how that would affect DOS applications/games which presumably can write directly to CRTC registers .

Not a solution per se, but a potential workaround : running the ADC through an OSSC (@imi, do you have one) and feeding DVI/HDMI into the E1S . This would come with its own set of potential inconveniences .

Reply 1152 of 1218, by imi

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I'm trying to capture under DOS, Crusader for example doesn't even run in windows, I can try powerstrip though.

I just find it weird that it happens on all 3 GPUs regardless, because the capture settings vary wildly between them but the vertical shift is always the same 5 pixels on 640x480, I also find it weird that there don't seem to be any possible vertical front porch/back porch adjustments on the datapath settings, just the vertical shifting.
I didn't have any issue like that with the Extron RGB-HDMI 300A and I feel like that lets me fine tune more variables, the Extron lets me define front porch and then active pixels at least, I find it weird that the datapath seems to be lacking that option and just lets me shift around... like I said, sometimes it doesn't even let me shift the image up enough, and even if it does there is nothing being captured beyond what was on screen initially and it just glitches/duplicates the pixels on the bottom.
also can't remember having had an issue like that on the Startech PEXHDCAP60L, though that one wouldn't let you set anything for vertical positioning and would just do it automatically by ommiting everything with a black value which came with it's on issues in case there was actual black on active pixels. ... but that card doesn't work anymore for me anyways (bluescreens in Win10) hence why I even got the Datapath in the first place.

unfortunately I don't have an OSSC (though that would kind of make the datapath card obsolete anyways ^^)

I have a Datapath VisionAV-HD card to test, but haven't had the time yet.

if this is a common issue on datapath cards I'm surprised I haven't read anything about it yet?

Reply 1153 of 1218, by vvbee

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imi wrote on 2022-02-07, 09:58:

if this is a common issue on datapath cards I'm surprised I haven't read anything about it yet?

I've recommended the VisionRGB-PRO for lower-res capture, but you need to work around the hardware and OS requirements. In any case, I don't think people use 640 x 480 much.

Reply 1154 of 1218, by Agent of the BSoD

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Yeah my E1S has the same issue. It seems to be something with analog signals. I get around it with the OSSC, which I mainly use anyway because I can set all of the sampling parameters and forget. I still use the E1S for it anyway because of how fast this card can lock on to a signal. Newer capture cards with HDMI have the handshake thing which takes a while on resolution changes.

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Reply 1155 of 1218, by darry

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imi wrote on 2022-02-07, 09:58:

unfortunately I don't have an OSSC (though that would kind of make the datapath card obsolete anyways ^^)

Well, the OSSC doesn't capture, so you would still need the Datapath (which is one of the only RGB capable, non subsampling, affordable DVI/HDMI capture options).

Reply 1156 of 1218, by imi

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so uh speaking to someone we just figured out that the issue does not happen at 640x480@75Hz, but any other refresh rate it does... which doesn't help me much, cause like I said crusader only runs in DOS and at 60Hz by default.

that's just true for 640x480 though, 800x600@75Hz still has one line missing

also tested on a monitor and all pixels are definitely IN the signal ^^

edit: ok... I didn't exactly "fix" the issue... but I threw extra hardware at it... namely an Extron RGB interface with sync processing: https://www.extron.com/product/rgb160xi
seems to be working now, funnily enough the datapath detected the resolution as 848x480 now...

Reply 1157 of 1218, by DVark09

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So I managed to get an Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A but I can't seem to be able to get an output to my capture card. I have tried several resolutions, both HDMI Data ON/OFF, factory resetting, firmware resetting but still nothing.
When I connect just to my monitor, it works perfectly though.
Also tried to connect it to an HDMI splitter to see whether it would display an image or not, and it didn't.
Perhaps I need to update the firmware?
Any ideas as to why this could be happening?
Capture card(s):
-Ezcap 321 (I haven't had any issue with this before, works really well)
-Cheap generic usb2.0 hdmi capture card (Only tried it to see if maybe it would capture the image)