VGA Capture Thread

Discussion about old graphics cards, monitors and video related things.

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-11-26 @ 01:06

elianda wrote:So why are you sticking to youtube?
You could put the original videos on some webspace. This would prevent the uncontrolled re encoding and the data would be easily downloadable to a local source.


The upscaled videos are very good quality I believe...

My point was that 480 videos suffer some quality loss and I wanted to explain my reasons for upscaling...

The limitation is really the S-Video signal quality. Not much can be done about this. As an example take a look on my SQ4 DOSBox recording: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIZhFbOH_9U

I dare to say if you watch it in 720 or 1080 you will get perfect quality! It's as clear as running DOSBox in front of you.

But yea that's emulation and it's funny on some forums people allready use DOSBos as the "reference" LOL...

Kids...
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Ace » 2010-11-26 @ 01:36

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:I can only suspect that your capture device has trouble "syncing" the image or something like that?

You can try hooking it up to a TV and seeing if you get the same shift or not. This might help isolate what the issue is.


It doesn't make a difference. Even on the TV, the image is cut off, and I see a very small black border around the visible area, so I know it's not a problem with my capture device. It's the same deal with both my GeForce 2 MX and that ATI graphics card whose name I don't know.

I think I should get another PCI-based ATI graphics card. My PCI-based 3D Rage II+DVD works wonders on my current MS-DOS gaming rig(which might change, as I have found two Pentium 1 motherboards, although they're both broken. One doesn't POST(with 2 different Pentium 1s) and the other just refuses to turn on with an ATX power supply(it will spin the fan for a fraction of a second), and with an AT power supply with a hard power switch, it turns on but does nothing. Must be due to failed capacitors, as I see close to 6 capacitors bulging on the motherboard).
Ace
Oldbie
 
Posts: 529
Joined: 2010-10-16 @ 17:35
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-11-26 @ 01:45

Interesting I just had a look at the VGA > S-Video converter box I bought and in the OSD menu it has a setting for screen size...

This is in NTSC mode now by the way. The VGA box has dip switches, so I can make it output in NTSC (lower resolution compared to PAL, but more frames)...

Image
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-11-26 @ 03:09

TheLazy1 wrote:Youtube is barfing now, but I've found yadif2x to be the best deinterlacer. (for TV anyway)


I'm settling on yadif now as well! Works really well and doesn't produce any glitches or double frames or whatever. Just works LOL

I also did some comparisons between having the VGA converter BOX in PAL or NTSC mode and I am leaning towards NTSC. The text / command line definitely looks cleared. I can't tell the difference between the 25 frames and 30 frames of NTSC, but I guess more frames is good to have!

NTSC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzvHitzK3kY

PAL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui6yk-gAAzc
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-11-27 @ 04:55

My first SVGA (640 x 480) capture using Duke Nukem 3D: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wza5eXhKF4M

Question for you gurus: Geforce MX 440, did they already come with a BIOS once could load, edit and reflash? I would like to change the TV out from PAL to NTSC. It's an Australian model so it comes with PAL configured, but I prefer NTSC because of the higher frame rate...
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby bestemor » 2010-11-27 @ 19:00

Ok, total newbie here, never recorded anything, but... :sweatdrop:

Anyone doing this have a tip for a great HD stream capture program/software, that doesn't cost too much ?
AND
I really prefer something that is installable totally OFFLINE
(no stinkin' activation or other 'retro-preventing' doo-das :blah:)

To be used with a WDM capable device.

Want it to be able to capture live highdef(albeit lowres at times) image coming in from source computer(vga cable) - to some 'raw' format, and then encode it into some space saving HD like format, as well as more universal stuff like mpeg1/2 and avi. (pref in 1024x and higher)
Of course nice if could encode on the fly(other than divx and lowres mpeg2), but I guess only the $1000+ programs do that ?

Easy to use would also be a plus, but beggars can't be choosers, so... as long as it works and don't make me eat noodles for months, I'll cope.


Haven't actually tried any yet, but I believe FRAPS or VirtualDub would work to some extent?
How about the more commercial ones - how good or easy are those ?
(SonyVegas, Pinnacle, Cyberlink, others ?)

The user reviews all seem to be rather biased one way or the other, so...
I'm thinking maybe Cyberlink P(but if it only has limited encoding options it would not do), if I can get a cheap copy somewhere - this is an offline product, right ? Only serial code etc needed ?


A great one(and prob overkill) would perhaps be "Streampix", but my wallet would need a heart transplant after that.
http://www.norpix.com/products/streampix5/streampix5.php


Or maybe this one?:
http://www.haysoft.com/site/hs-videocapture.html
But the 2GB file limit may be too small for raw avi?
(how many minutes would that be I wonder. 10-20?)

---

PS: why/when would one need a 'deinterlacer' ?
User avatar
bestemor
Oldbie
 
Posts: 577
Joined: 2007-4-23 @ 22:09

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-11-27 @ 23:58

Confused about "source computer". Are there 2 computers? One for capturing and one that plays the content? Or do you want to record what you are seeing on a single computer?

In general there are 2 steps. The first one is the actual capturing of the RAW footage. The second step is editing that footage (anything from removing stuff you don't like, to adding captions, menus, transitions, whatever) and then encoding the footage.

Fraps is terrific (I have the paid full version), but only works for DirectX and OpenGL applications. For such applications it works really well. It can even record voice comments from a mic which is handy.

There are a ton of other programs that can record the whole screen if that's what you need (e.g. to record a how-to-guide). But please change the windows icons to larger DPI :-). I tried some software to record a ScummVM session a while ago, but can't remember what it was.

It was also a paid version, but IMO that shouldn't deter you as they all have trial versions to get you going.

For the editing and encoding well IMO it doesn't get easier and cheaper than Microsoft Movie Maker. I used it for a lot of my videos. It's fantastic and has a ton of features and really easy with lots of help on the internet.

But you can't do more advanced things like scale the resolution or change the aspect ratio.

You need a deinterlacer if you capture interlaced footage opposed to progressive footage. Old school TV = interlaced. PCs and new TVs = progressive.
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby bestemor » 2010-11-28 @ 15:16

As to 'source computer', yes - there are 2.
1 which plays the role of the recorder, the second is the... well, source :lol:

Connected via a VGA cable from the source (occationally via some scan converter - for CGA/EGA machines(XT), and a vga splitter/amp), into a card on the recorder. That is the master plan anyway.

Oh, and hopefully I can get sound to work as well, directly into my sound card (?). (have to use a microphone for the soundcard-less XT, beep-beep...)

Regarding FRAPS, when you say
but only works for DirectX and OpenGL applications.

I assume that refers to the image shown on the recording computer ?
(of which I have no idea whether is DirectX or other, but at least WDM)

As for the 2 steps you mention, I'm thinking like that yes.
First capture it, then encode etc.
Still at step one I'm afraid.... :sweatdrop:
(though collecting parts/software/info for both steps)
User avatar
bestemor
Oldbie
 
Posts: 577
Joined: 2007-4-23 @ 22:09

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-11-28 @ 15:23

Ok 2 computers, no worries...

Well that's basically what I do with my VGA to S-Video converter box. The quality is OK (you can check my videos) but S-Video clearly has it's limits.

The box I have routes your monitor through, so you can use your monitor just like before and the other computer records everything that's coming out of the VGA port.

AFAIK this is the cheapest / easiest way to do it. That VGA to S-Video box cost me only ~25 bucks shipped I believe. And then you also need a S-Video capture device. You might already have a TV tuner card with such capability or buy a USB S-Video capture device like I did. ~ 40 bucks...
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby bestemor » 2010-11-28 @ 15:40

I actually have an old VGA frame grabber card ('cheap'/90% discount, from ebay!), which accepts VGA-in(!), and presents it in actual resolution(source) on the recorder's desktop in a scaleable window or full screen, via the 'driver'(?) program... :happyhappy:
Max res seems to be 1600x1200.

That's where I'm at the moment, with no further testing done, apart from some snapshots/stills. So I guess I'll have to start making some time to test capture programs...
User avatar
bestemor
Oldbie
 
Posts: 577
Joined: 2007-4-23 @ 22:09

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-11-28 @ 15:45

WOW! Seriously???

Please tell me all about this VGA frame grabber card! Surely this card must support some way of writing the footage directly into a file...

Man I'd love to play around with such a device. What brand / model is it?
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby bestemor » 2010-11-28 @ 15:57

http://www.ems-imaging.com/online/products/PhynxRGB-VGA-RGB-Video-Capture-Card.html

I don't wanna use any 'native' codecs/file format, hence my hunt for something more versatile/open.
User avatar
bestemor
Oldbie
 
Posts: 577
Joined: 2007-4-23 @ 22:09

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-11-28 @ 15:59

The codec the RAW footage doesn't matter, as long as your editing package can open it. E.g. DOSBox and Fraps use codecs and both can be opened with standard editing packages :-)

These capture cards usually capture as close to "RAW" as possible. Some have processors though and can do some compressing for you if you like.

That card looks awesome! Have you tried it yet? If you can see the BIOS screen and 320 x 200 DOG Games you are in business :-)

PS: It states it can capture uncompressed to AVI. Perfect :-)
Last edited by Mau1wurf1977 on 2010-11-28 @ 16:04, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby bestemor » 2010-11-28 @ 16:04

I meant that as an explanation as to why not just using the downloadable "PhynxRecorder and PhynxPlayer" which is mentioned in that previous link.

It supposedly "...uses native drivers with dedicated file format.", not really sure what that means though.

BIG EDIT:
I've messed up the link for the card, it is THIS card, virtually the same(different name, slightly different bios I imagine), but which has no recording software etc:
http://www.datapath.co.uk/visionrgbpro1.html

Been a while since I looked at these things, sorry... :dead:

*

PS: as for bios screen, you mean the source, correct ?
Which I probably would see (and DOG=DOS??).
Have no working pure dos machine atm. (needs some assembly)

But for some reason the input(boot process) shown so far scales automatically to 720x400 in the window(recording box), and changing it makes it not look good.
Problem so far is that I've only messed around with windows machines, and the odd naked mobo boot process, not knowing exactly what the source resolution is. Oh well, will test more at a later time.
Last edited by bestemor on 2010-11-28 @ 16:21, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
bestemor
Oldbie
 
Posts: 577
Joined: 2007-4-23 @ 22:09

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-11-28 @ 16:12

That will be fine!

Let me know when you have it up and running... I guess there are similar brands / products like this. Guess I need to do some research and then I know what to look for on ebay :-)
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby bestemor » 2010-11-28 @ 18:01

User avatar
bestemor
Oldbie
 
Posts: 577
Joined: 2007-4-23 @ 22:09

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-11-29 @ 07:09

I ordered a VGA to HDMI scaler for ~ 60 bucks shipped. Fingers crossed... If this works I can just buy a HDMI capture device which are quite easy to source...
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby TheLazy1 » 2010-12-01 @ 22:03

How would this work for games that refresh at 70Hz?
I suppose the same thing could be asked about LCDs as well, if it's noticeable at all.
TheLazy1
Member
 
Posts: 385
Joined: 2010-2-11 @ 01:28
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby 5u3 » 2010-12-02 @ 01:37

^^^ Yes, it's noticeable on slow LCD monitors. Most of them can accept and display refresh rates above 60Hz, but they will drop frames.
User avatar
5u3
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1567
Joined: 2005-9-06 @ 12:23
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-12-02 @ 02:40

TheLazy1 wrote:How would this work for games that refresh at 70Hz?


At this stage I don't even know IF it will work LOL
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

PreviousNext

Return to Video

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BastlerMike and 2 guests