VGA Capture Thread

Discussion about old graphics cards, monitors and video related things.

Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby appiah4 » 2019-8-21 @ 06:54

Now THAT is a nice scaling algorithm..
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby elianda » 2019-8-21 @ 09:21

Actual use for capturing seems limited:

- works only on Turing
- an application must use a resolution < desktop resolution
- It must be possible to set the lower resolution

So one would need to capture a viewer application in fullscreen mode. All frame sync information is lost.

Also the current implementation does not distinguish between resolution and aspect ratio:

So one can either upscale the original resolution assuming square pixels to the same aspect ratio in the desktop resolution
or
upscale the original resolution to the desktop resolution at the aspect ratio of the desktop resolution.

So if I have as original resolution 720x400 at a 4:3 aspect I can not scale it to e.g. 1440x1080. It would scale instead to 1920x1067.
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby imi » 2019-8-21 @ 23:40

does anyone know if there is a way of applying one of the many CRT shaders that are out there to an actual hardware capture?

I can find tons of information on emulators of all kinds and their respective shaders... but nothing whatsoever on applying CRT shaders to actual captured footage from real hardware after the fact.
there is a "shaderfilter" plugin for OBS, that lets you apply shaders, but the information around it is really lacking unfortunately... any tutorial is really only focusing on how to use and apply shaders, not on how to actually create them, of course none of the CRT shaders that are around "just work" in there ootb, and I can't unfortunately find any programming reference on how to actually translate any of the shaders to work in OBS, I wouldn't know where to start... I figured it needs to be in HLSL? but there is probably some critera that needs to be met for a shader to actually work in the OBS plugin.

It would be awesome if anyone knows anything about that, thanks in advance :)
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby elianda » 2019-8-22 @ 09:34

If you target OBS, then you have to write an effect using the API: https://obsproject.com/docs/reference-l ... fects.html
There you can include the CRT shader.

While OBS is good for live streaming it has its drawbacks for capturing because it does not lock the capture frame rate to the source frame rate. Actually it is not intended by design as you can combine multiple sources to one output stream.

So it would probably be more useful to put the CRT shader in some post processing filter of a video editor program.
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby imi » 2019-8-22 @ 12:04

elianda wrote:If you target OBS, then you have to write an effect using the API: https://obsproject.com/docs/reference-l ... fects.html
There you can include the CRT shader.


thank you for that link, going to look into that in the evening, I do actually want to use it for streaming, that's why I was asking for OBS :)

the main issue I had with all the shaders I found was that I think they were referencing specific things from the programs/emulators they were written for and I really didn't know how to translate that for use in OBS.
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby leileilol » 2019-8-22 @ 12:33

The thing about CRT shaders is that they'll only look best when they know about the source resolution they're working with (like 320x200 to a CRT'd up 1280x960). Typical CRT shaders applied on something like reshade or whatever would mess it up and be super moirey (or even worse, like force a 'retro' resolution by doing a bit of imprecise pixelation)
by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby imi » 2019-8-22 @ 13:26

shouldn't an emulated shadow mask always be the same "size", independent of the actual input resolution?

my primary goal is to distort the image and emulate a shadow mask like in CRT-Geom
I read that shadow mask would only look good on 4k, but I watched a few videos of it on youtube in lower resolutions and it looked quite pleasing imo.
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby arncht » 2019-8-22 @ 19:49

i am afraid, you can create just a “zoomed” shadow mask, because the pixel size difference is not big enough between an old 14 inch 0.28 display, and a modern 4k, but much bigger screen.

Eg 4k 27” 0.1481mm dot pitch
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Uplinkpro » 2019-9-08 @ 08:34

So is there a definitive way to capture VGA with an E1S ? Im assuming a vga>dvi connector will not suffice.
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby havli » 2019-9-08 @ 12:26

E1S has DVI-I connector and supports both analog and digital input... So yes, VGA->DVI adapter will work.
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Kisai » 2019-9-30 @ 19:03

imi wrote:does anyone know if there is a way of applying one of the many CRT shaders that are out there to an actual hardware capture?



It's probably not viable at all. You can in theory re-process the video by running the game at the intended low resolution, capture it on a second PC and play it back through a video player that can apply filters, or ffmpeg, and then export the much larger file.

But I have to say, especially as someone who has upscaled stuff to 4K for youtube. It's absolutely pointless. Yes you can filter it, but youtube will destroy that filtering unless the watcher is actually using 4K, if they end up watching it at 1440p, 1080p or 720p that extra filtering will significantly reduce the brightness, and legibility of text.
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby bandicoot67 » 2019-10-02 @ 05:01

DosWorld wrote:Hi!

I am looking for advice. I need record video from C64, C128, Amiga 500 and DOS-based VGA (up to 800*600).
Will be good have posibility record and see video at one time.
PC-dvr is mac mini (with usb2) or laptop (ubuntu, usb3) or old PC with Amd Phenom (4 core).


I bought a DVD recorder to record console game play and 2005ish PC games. If your graphics card can clone a second screen, run the signal out to a TV and put the DVD recorder in the middle, so...signal out of graphics card into DVD recorder, leads out of DVD recorder into TV to watch in real time.

When i was doing this a lot of years ago the DVD-combo HDD recorders were still very pricey.

The next issue with recorded DVD's is finding a video editor that can handle those annoying raw .VOB files. It's messy and time consuming to edit them up as well.

These days i just use shadowplay to record @1080p.
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby appiah4 » 2019-10-02 @ 06:11

I guess this has been asked earlier but so much of the conversation is outdated I suppose it may as well be asked again..

Is there a cheap but at least fair quality option to record PAL output A500/DOS video signal from Composite, RGB/Scart and S-Video sources?
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby arncht » 2019-10-16 @ 20:15

Somebody, who has an ossc, could help me for some dos demo testing? I am curious how can it handle more tricky stuff.
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby Elia1995 » 2019-11-02 @ 07:10

bandicoot67 wrote:
DosWorld wrote:Hi!

I am looking for advice. I need record video from C64, C128, Amiga 500 and DOS-based VGA (up to 800*600).
Will be good have posibility record and see video at one time.
PC-dvr is mac mini (with usb2) or laptop (ubuntu, usb3) or old PC with Amd Phenom (4 core).


I bought a DVD recorder to record console game play and 2005ish PC games. If your graphics card can clone a second screen, run the signal out to a TV and put the DVD recorder in the middle, so...signal out of graphics card into DVD recorder, leads out of DVD recorder into TV to watch in real time.

When i was doing this a lot of years ago the DVD-combo HDD recorders were still very pricey.

The next issue with recorded DVD's is finding a video editor that can handle those annoying raw .VOB files. It's messy and time consuming to edit them up as well.

These days i just use shadowplay to record @1080p.


You could just rip and convert the DVD into mp4 files with a program like Xilisoft DVD Ripper
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby arncht » 2019-11-13 @ 09:29

at the ossc... is it possible to set the multiplier to the width and the height separately?
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby appiah4 » 2019-11-29 @ 12:16

I suppose this doesn't deserve its own thread so I will pose the question here even though it's not exactly capturing 'vga'.. but..

Do PCI VGA cards like the ATI All-In-Wonder Pro output on their TV-Out by default (ie. in BIOS, MS-DOS, etc.) or do they require some kind of Windows 9x driver initialization to start showing an image on the TV-Out?

How good an idea is it to capture MS-DOS footage using TV-Out (S-Video) from such cards?
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby imi » 2019-11-29 @ 13:02

the first HTPC I built used a HD2400 that one would show BIOS etc. through TV-out iirc... depends on the GPU I guess, apparently a lot GPUs only output through the TV-out by default if no other monitor is connected.
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Re: VGA Capture Thread

Postby xjas » 2019-11-29 @ 18:26

DosWorld wrote:Hi!

I am looking for advice. I need record video from C64, C128, Amiga 500 and DOS-based VGA (up to 800*600).
Will be good have posibility record and see video at one time.
PC-dvr is mac mini (with usb2) or laptop (ubuntu, usb3) or old PC with Amd Phenom (4 core).

appiah4 wrote:I guess this has been asked earlier but so much of the conversation is outdated I suppose it may as well be asked again..

Is there a cheap but at least fair quality option to record PAL output A500/DOS video signal from Composite, RGB/Scart and S-Video sources?


Just about any cheap SD capture device will do a decent enough job for composite/s-video. I don't know about SCART though. I use an EyeTV 250 Plus on an old Mac Mini for recording from my C64 which looks pretty good, and it supports component too. I think I paid $20 for it, barely used and CIB, although I wouldn't recommend that particular device due to stupid DRM they put in the driver/software suite that makes activating a used one problematic. It's fairly easy to bypass though. (AFAIK they got bought out by Elgato.)

The usual players like Pinnacle, Avermedia, Elgato, etc. all made capture boxes for composite/s-video/component that would work fine. I think The 8-bit Guy uses one of the Pinnacle Dazzle series, and I see those all the time for under $20 used. You could even try your luck with the "EasyCap" lottery - they can usually be had for under $10, but there are so many fakes and gimped knockoffs out there I'd hold out for something a little more upmarket.

appiah4 wrote:I suppose this doesn't deserve its own thread so I will pose the question here even though it's not exactly capturing 'vga'.. but..

Do PCI VGA cards like the ATI All-In-Wonder Pro output on their TV-Out by default (ie. in BIOS, MS-DOS, etc.) or do they require some kind of Windows 9x driver initialization to start showing an image on the TV-Out?

How good an idea is it to capture MS-DOS footage using TV-Out (S-Video) from such cards?


Some do, some don't. AFAIK ATI cards are pretty good in this regard. I used to run a machine with a Radeon HD3850 connected solely to a CRT TV via S-Video and it output everything - BIOS screens, text mode, DOS, Windows boot logo, etc.

Keep in mind if you're capturing DOS games, it will probably force the output to 50Hz (PAL) which messes up the timing in some stuff that expects 70Hz. Either that or there'd be some internal framerate conversion going on which will cause the odd skip or jerky motion. I can't remember which one the Radeon did.
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