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Best video cards with DOS / Win 3.x / Win 9x support

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Reply 160 of 177, by thenix

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kolderman wrote on 2020-05-14, 03:16:
thenix wrote on 2020-05-14, 03:05:
kolderman wrote on 2020-05-14, 01:54:

> According to that document the integrated video is the ATI Rage Pro AGP 2X

https://www.dell.com/community/Desktops-Gener … are/m-p/1135058

I guess that's the answer...

I figured it was something like that. However I have my monitor plugged into my card. I feel like even though I have both drivers it isn't using the correct one. For example playing half life I still can't use OpenGL and if i set the display resolution higher it is as laggy as before. Maybe the video card isn't that great? But it seemed to be a highly recommended card. hmmm

Have you disabled onboard vga in bios?

OK so I just had a facepalm moment. I realized I never unplugged my vga cable. So windows was using the vga instead of my dvi. However I'm having a heck of a time telling windows that the DVI is my main screen. I'm working on that now, if you have any quick tips (i'm going to try to disable on board vga) let me know otherwise I'll let you know how it's going.

Reply 161 of 177, by kolderman

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1) in windows, remove all the existing monitors and video adapters (and dont reinstall them)
2) reboot and disable onboard vga in bios
3) when windows starts, it should pick everything up as normal

Reply 162 of 177, by thenix

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thenix wrote on 2020-05-14, 03:35:
kolderman wrote on 2020-05-14, 03:16:
thenix wrote on 2020-05-14, 03:05:

I figured it was something like that. However I have my monitor plugged into my card. I feel like even though I have both drivers it isn't using the correct one. For example playing half life I still can't use OpenGL and if i set the display resolution higher it is as laggy as before. Maybe the video card isn't that great? But it seemed to be a highly recommended card. hmmm

Have you disabled onboard vga in bios?

OK so I just had a facepalm moment. I realized I never unplugged my vga cable. So windows was using the vga instead of my dvi. However I'm having a heck of a time telling windows that the DVI is my main screen. I'm working on that now, if you have any quick tips (i'm going to try to disable on board vga) let me know otherwise I'll let you know how it's going.

OK so the Bios controls all that. Interesting. I got it set up now. Sorry for the dumb questions but talking it out with you helped me solve it.

Reply 163 of 177, by appiah4

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T-Squared wrote on 2020-05-13, 19:06:
appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-05, 22:44:

PCI Riva 128, PCI Riva TNT or PCI Intel i740 are what you want. PCI Matrox Millennium I and II also have working feature connectors, but they may not fulfill all your criteria (Millennium I is better in terms of DOS compatibility IME). If you can find them for <$40 a PCI Voodoo Banshee or a PCI Voodoo 3 will also work.

So a Riva TNT2 won't work?

I would not be sure that all Feature Connectors on TNT2 family cards, particularly later cards like the M64 or Ultra would work, but they are woth a try..

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Reply 164 of 177, by T-Squared

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-14, 06:58:
T-Squared wrote on 2020-05-13, 19:06:
appiah4 wrote on 2020-05-05, 22:44:

PCI Riva 128, PCI Riva TNT or PCI Intel i740 are what you want. PCI Matrox Millennium I and II also have working feature connectors, but they may not fulfill all your criteria (Millennium I is better in terms of DOS compatibility IME). If you can find them for <$40 a PCI Voodoo Banshee or a PCI Voodoo 3 will also work.

So a Riva TNT2 won't work?

I would not be sure that all Feature Connectors on TNT2 family cards, particularly later cards like the M64 or Ultra would work, but they are woth a try..

Argh, I got an M64/64, even though it says TNT2 Series...

I've decided to expand my criteria to AGP too. Will the AGP versions of these cards work, as well?

Reply 165 of 177, by zapbuzz

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jaqie wrote on 2012-03-12, 21:30:
You could always go for a radeon 7000 pci, since you only have pci slots - I have one here I keep to test things with, it has DV […]
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You could always go for a radeon 7000 pci, since you only have pci slots - I have one here I keep to test things with, it has DVI and VGA out and is PCI is why it works so well for a tester card.

They can be had dirt cheap all day long on ebay.

http://compare.ebay.com/like/310385591118?var … &_lwgsi=y&cbt=y

I have absolutely no clue if it is 3.x compatible, though.

what the hell? I can't find one for under $120 au

Reply 166 of 177, by foil_fresh

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so i've been trying to play some build games using the VESA modes but i get the error saying it's not going to work and that i can try univbe. i tried univbe but it says chipset unsupported. blood and duke3d atomic showing the same thing in dos or windows.

my system: nvidia riva 128 agp 4mb (ASUS AGP-V3000), 440bx chipset. win98se.

i assumed the vesa extensions were built into the card's bios. am i missing something fundamental? do i need a special tsr? different windows drivers? agp isnt compatible? i tried with both the default win98se drivers and the drivers from the asus driver cd for the card.

Reply 167 of 177, by OMORES

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For Windows DOS - 3.x-95-98-Me-2k - my first pick would be (and actually is) VooDoo 3 PCI.

DOS - on par with other good cards but you have also DOS GLide option
Windows 3.11 one of the newest cards with available drivers. On my Ryzen 3900x PC - 3dfx Velocity driver is the only Windows driver I can actually install
Windows 95/98/Me - works great driver wise, including Win95A*
Windows 2000 - will recognize Voodoo 3 with default drivers*

*My VooDoo 3 3000 PCI - requires some annoying tuning with Power Strip 2.78 to cover the entire screen @1920x1080. If you know another fix, please tell me.

voodoo3_drivers_windows_311.png
win95a_ryzen3900x_voodoo3.png

Reply 169 of 177, by dr.zeissler

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Voodoo works, but it's SLOWWWW...against Matrox in Win3x.

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Reply 170 of 177, by darry

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dr.zeissler wrote on 2020-06-20, 22:43:

Voodoo works, but it's SLOWWWW...against Matrox in Win3x.

Are there any Windows 3.1 applications/games that both require graphical speed and cannot be run properly under Windows 9x ?

I do not currently have a Windows 3.1 setup and I wonder if I am missing out on something .

EDIT: I hardly used Windows 3.1, except to run word processorsand a few other office type applications. For all the rest, I stayed in DOS and eventually switched to Windows 95.

Reply 171 of 177, by Grumgi

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The card I'm about to suggest is kind of a piece of junk, but if you don't want to spend any more than 10 or so dollars, a Cirrus Logic 5465 should work just fine. It's still available on Amazon, in fact. It's a PCI card with only I think a single mb of VRAM. It's not incredibly powerful by any stretch and OpenGL will probably kill it (poor thing), but it supports 1024x768 and 32 bit color. The drivers should be floating around, but if you can't find it, know that it's on any Windows 98SE CD. Don't try any resolutions higher than 400x300 on something like Quake, or 640x480 on anything else.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3Dlabs-Permedia-2V-P … 4AAAOSwh-Je-5lf
This thing might fit the bill too, but I'm rather unfamiliar with this card.

Reply 173 of 177, by appiah4

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Schyz wrote on 2020-08-01, 21:05:

I think the best for a DOS + Win3.1 + early Win9X setup is a Cirrus Logic SVGA + 3Dfx 4Mb.

Early CL SVGAs with good DOS compatibility tend to have pretty poor Windows acceleration in Win9x IME.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 175 of 177, by ragefury32

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Warlord wrote on 2020-08-17, 11:36:

Intel i740 is actually good? I have one that I never used.

Depends on your definition of good.
THe i740 Starfighter is...interesting.

The 2D Core is fairly good (supposedly a C&T 69000 series fork), the 3D is developed by Lockheed Martin Real3D and is somewhere between a Rendition Verite 2100 and a Riva128 (closer to the Riva). It’s not that fast (at least not compared to the hype building up around it) when it was released in late ‘97 and most people tend to skip it for non-Voodoo retro boxes (Rage128, G400, TNT2, Savage4, etc) . It’s not that fast, but then, it was originally designed to work with a Pentium 166MMX, and the i740 series was designed with the premise that the AGP port would be used to stream texture data from RAM (instead of it being used as a fast channel to get data onto the video card VRAM ASAP and run the assets there, which is an order of magnitude faster and how AGP was used successfully later). It was a competently engineered piece of hardware based on a bad technical premise, and it’s really too bad 2 companies (Chips & Technology + Real3D) paid for this misstep.

It also got its name trashed (unfairly) when Intel cancelled the follow-up i752 and released a variant in their i810/815 chipset as freebie integrated video on Coppermine P3 boxes ('99-'00 vintage). The one that was hated by office workers looking for a Quake 3 session during lunchtime on their work PCs.

It’s actually kinda sad to see people toss out the i740s and keep SiS 6326 cards instead. It’s really not that bad. On the flip-side, it’s not that great either.

Last edited by ragefury32 on 2020-08-18, 13:26. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 176 of 177, by appiah4

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i740 makes a great companion card for a Voodoo 2 or SLI setup due to being a fairly compatible 2D card with a very crisp image. Its 3D image quality is also fantastic, and way better than contemporaries like Voodoo 1 and Riva 128. Its 3D performance is around that of a Voodoo Banshee. The problem is that 99% of the cards are AGP and when you get to AGP motherboards then your options open up vastly, and there are very few configurations that wouldn't be bottlenecked by the i740. I guess if you are building something like a cheapo Super Socket 7 with a 6x86MX-PR200 or something it could make contextual sense as a budget 3D card.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.