Finally found a solution. The Riva 128 PCI (or Diamond Viper V330 PCI, which has this chip) is hard to find. Currently only one on ebay. Therefore I did some more research and found the Voodoo 3 PCI to be compatible also with VBE 3.0 and drivers are available for Win 3.11 ( http://www.3dfxzone.it/enboard/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15868 ).
This card is somewhat easier to find and I'm getting it delivered next monday 😁

For anyony looking for a VBE 3.0 compatible card, I found the following:

VBE 3.0 is supported by all the cards with the following chipsets:
* all NVIDIA chips starting with RIVA 128:
RIVA 128/TNT/TNT2/GeForce/GeForce2.
* all 3dfx chips starting with Banshee:
Banshee/Voodoo3/Voodoo4/Voodoo5/Voodoo6.

This is a great find indeed!

Now I think Voodoo3 will be perfect for a classic system. This is (now, was) the only reason I've been holding back against building a DOS based system with a Voodoo3 - which has an excellent reputation in vintage PCs. - (I always build a DOS machine with Windows 3.x in mind.)

sliderider wrote:

Totempole wrote:

TNT2 Ultra and TNT2 M64 are no good when it comes to dos games which require UniVBE Drivers. TNT1 or TNT2 Standard are far better choices.

How different is TNT2 M64 from TNT2? I thought M64 was the same chip hobbled with a 64-bit memory interface.

On top of that TNT2 ultra is just an overclocked version of a normal TNT2. So whats the difference then?

Malik wrote:

For high spec card in systems without AGP slot - a TNT2 M64 PCI or Matrox Millenium II G200 PCI. […]
Show full quote

For high spec card in systems without AGP slot - a TNT2 M64 PCI or Matrox Millenium II G200 PCI.

ET4000 VLB or PCI is equally good.

Other options include Riva128 and TNT for AGP solution.

Edit : I'm not familiar with ATIs in this regard, and I'll leave that to others who are more knowledgable.

How about the PCI Matrox G400/G450 based cards? (if compatibility is good, those would be among the top-spec pre-T&L accelerators available -and performance for non-T&L stuff is actually higher than many early T&L capable cards)

Some of those late-gen cards may be hard to find in PCI, but the G400/450 seems to be pretty common in PCI flavor. (either that, or it's just unusually common locally -I saw 3 or 4 PCI G450 based cards at WeirdStuff Warehouse recently)
AGP stuff from that era is obviously more common in general though.

Malik wrote:

This is a great find indeed!

Now I think Voodoo3 will be perfect for a classic system. This is (now, was) the only reason I've been holding back against building a DOS based system with a Voodoo3 - which has an excellent reputation in vintage PCs. - (I always build a DOS machine with Windows 3.x in mind.)

How does the Banshee compare for compatibility? (3D performance would obviously be lower)

kool kitty89 wrote:

How does the Banshee compare for compatibility? (3D performance would obviously be lower)

Same 2D core I reckon. I never really seen much of diff between V3 and Banshee ofther than the obvious tmuage. V3 IS an evolution of Banshee after all.

Why use anything other than Voodoo3? It's best to have Glide support, and most of the pre-2000 D3D and OpenGL games tested against 3dfx the most. They have excellent VGA signal quality, extremely fast GUI and VBE. There are Win3.1 drivers.

Banshee is just a slow Voodoo3 prototype. I think its GUI engine might have some bugs because I saw palette corruption with StarCraft videos. Strange but there it was.

Matrox Gxxx are like Rage 128 and Savage4 in my mind - not ideal for anything, but better than nothing. Actually Savage4's S3TC is interesting enough to put it ahead I think. But overall NVIDIA and 3dfx are better choices for gaming. Even Matrox's VGA signal quality is overrated in my experience - they are good but there are cards just as good if not better. Amusingly, my Millennium G200 gets fuzzy at 1280x960. G400 is crispy clear though.

Voodoo Rush was really the frist slow prototype and the biggest failer to sale over Voodoo Graphics and there are 3 Rush model made Alliance Semiconductor AT25/AT3D, Macronix MX86251FC and rare third version with Cirrus Logic I think was a Alpine Accelerator chip = 2D component + Voodoo 1.
Next up was to integrated the ProMotion AT24 with Voodoo which give you what below now which fix all problem that the Rush had.
Voodoo Banshee 2nd prototype = 2D + Voodoo 1, It was fast but the Voodoo 2 still kick it butt due to the second TMU it had which was significantly faster which was later integrated in to now know as Voodoo 3/Velocity.
Voodoo 3/Velocity 3rd prototype = 2D + Voodoo 2
Voodoo 4 2nd, 4th prototype = 2D + Dual Voodoo 2 SLI
Voodoo 5 1st, 4th prototype = 2D + Dual Voodoo 2 SLI pair chip, 5500 x2 or 6000 x4 mode
Rampage would have been 5th prototype = Voodoo 5 6000 all rolled in to one chip

Yeah I know all about the lineup. What I meant was Banshee was 3dfx's first single chip solution. Voodoo3 is essentially version 2 of that and better in every way. I saw problems with Banshee's GUI accelerator and that is why I suggest avoiding it.

Voodoo Rush....yikes. Steer clear of those cards for sure. Blurry, slow, incompatible. If only they had partnered with S3 or Tseng Labs for their 2D chip then the cards might have been a little bit more interesting.

@shspvr; there is no such thing as a Voodoo Rush with Cirrus Logic chip. As the owner of one of the biggest collections of 3dfx, I have never come across such a card. The only 2D chips used for Voodoo Rush were the Macronix and the Alliance Semiconductor chips. And as far as I know, 3dfx designed their own 2D part for the Banshee and later, they did not use the AT24 core.

The rest of your post makes even less sense.

yeah, more voodoo2 doesn't make 32bit, fsaa or 512+ texturing

NitroX infinity wrote:

@shspvr; there is no such thing as a Voodoo Rush with Cirrus Logic chip. As the owner of one of the biggest collections of 3dfx, I have never come across such a card. The only 2D chips used for Voodoo Rush were the Macronix and the Alliance Semiconductor chips..

So you own the biggest collections
Truth me there is a Voodoo Rush with Cirrus Logic chip there only hand full ever made I have saw at 3dfx Lab and I wish I had pciture just put it rest it also up on wikipedia look there.
I know you don't know me but dose any of this ring bells like shs_3dfx, shs_sblive, NT Compatible and Voodoo card Windows 2000 driver and was on 3dfx news group and forum for min years my name Anthony Toste

And as far as I know, 3dfx designed their own 2D part for the Banshee and later, they did not use the AT24 core.

You don't know for sure I my have been using as an Example to what ref to.

I bought enough spare parts on ebay during the last years. Interested in one of those two? Just send me a PM

€: I also have a voodoo3 3500 pci somewhere including breakout box...

swaaye wrote:

Why use anything other than Voodoo3? It's best to have Glide support, and most of the pre-2000 D3D and OpenGL games tested against 3dfx the most. They have excellent VGA signal quality, extremely fast GUI and VBE. There are Win3.1 drivers.

For maxing out performance for Glide-specific games, wouldn't a Voodoo 5 be better still? (or are there some compatibility problems compared to the 4?)

Matrox Gxxx are like Rage 128 and Savage4 in my mind - not ideal for anything, but better than nothing. Actually Savage4's S3TC is interesting enough to put it ahead I think. But overall NVIDIA and 3dfx are better choices for gaming. Even Matrox's VGA signal quality is overrated in my experience - they are good but there are cards just as good if not better. Amusingly, my Millennium G200 gets fuzzy at 1280x960. G400 is crispy clear though.

Based on your benchmarks, the G400/450 was faster than the Rage 128Pro (and close to the GeForce 256).
The later Nvidia cards also seem to be less common in PCI than the ATi or Matrox counterparts, at least given what I see locally. (granted, that's only important for those specifically working with older PCI-only boards)

1For maxing out performance for Glide-specific games, wouldn't a Voodoo 5 be better still? (or are there some compatibility problems compared to the 4?)

As in 4 what ? I take it your ref to Matrox G4OO card the yes Voodoo 5

He was probably referring to compatibility differences between Voodoo4 and Voodoo3. I'm not sure that there are any. Both have their problems with some Voodoo1 games. Voodoo5 is my preference for most old games because of its Glide + 4X AA capacity. That is really a new level of quality for those games.

It's true that PCI variants are less prolific than AGP and I'm sure this is due to OEMs only wanting the AGP version of the cards. PCI versions would have been mainly for the relatively small upgrade market.

kool kitty89 wrote:

How about the PCI Matrox G400/G450 based cards? (if compatibility is good, those would be among the top-spec pre-T&L accelerators available -and performance for non-T&L stuff is actually higher than many early T&L capable cards)

Some of those late-gen cards may be hard to find in PCI, but the G400/450 seems to be pretty common in PCI flavor.

Ah, yes. Forgotten about Matrox G400 series. Windows 3.1x drivers are officially still available for the G400. I'm not sure if the G450 will be supported via the G400 driver. Official driver details list the G400 as being supported in the final Win3.x Matrox driver release.

For a high spec based system the G400 series sounds good but I don't have first hand experience in using it. I guess it should be good.

But ever since I heard there's Win3.x driver for Voodoo3, I think it'll be great. It's very fast for a Dos based machine, and if installing Windows95 or 98, there's Glide support. Among users here (including me 😁 ), the Voodoo3 has earned a respectable reputation when it comes to classic PCs.

Even though nothing can take away the compatibility crown of the Voodoo1 in Dos games, workaround is still possible for games both in Windows9x and probably Dos too for the Voodoo3. It also has excellent VESA compatibility, as been pointed out. And the signal quality is excellent too - unlike the original voodoo1.

Of course, you can go further with a Voodoo4 and Voodoo5, but you start to lose the Win3.x full graphics range support.

What we need now is for some testers to verify the driver working in their Voodoo3s and post the result. It will also be helpful if all the results can be made available - Voodoo3 2000, 3000, 3500.

From the above link, the driver was originally shipped with a Compaq variant.

Unfortunately I don't have my Vodoo3 2000 anymore to test it.

swaaye wrote:

He was probably referring to compatibility differences between Voodoo4 and Voodoo3. I'm not sure that there are any. Both have their problems with some Voodoo1 games. Voodoo5 is my preference for most old games because of its Glide + 4X AA capacity. That is really a new level of quality for those games.

Actually, I made a typo. I meant to say "compatibility compared to the Voodoo 3" not voodoo 4. (and I meant in terms of both Glide and general DOS/windows compatibility -compared to the Voodoo 3)

Ie, is there any reason why the Voodoo 3 is worth having over the 5? (aside from cost/ease of procurement) And from the comments above, it definitely sounds like the 3 is worth having for flexible DOS/windows compatibility.

Regarding Rage 128 Pro - it's fairly capable for D3D but it has no advantages. ATI is not a good bet mainly because of how bad their drivers were back then. This was the time when they were working hard to earn their bad driver rap. I'm not sure what to expect out of it for DX3-5 games. Radeon has problems with those games because of no support for some things, like fog table.

How do the late/final release drivers compare? Several cards/GPUs of the late 90s started off with poor/mediocre driver support (or even lasting for much of the mainstream market life), but several of those also got major improvements and updates later on (which seems to be the case with several Nvidia, ATi, and Matrox platforms). That's opposed to the ViRGE series, which seems to have never gotten good drivers, even very late in its life. (and it did end up having a very long life in the low-end/OEM market -though the plain 2D drivers seem to be perfectly fine)

You also mentioned the Savage 4 being interesting for S3TC support, but that would only be significant for a handful of games with specific support for that, right? (with anything with specific DirectX 6 or higher supporting D3D compression on other cards -which is really a licensed S3TC)

I've heard/read many times that there are compatibility issues between VSA-100 (Voodoo4/5) and Glide games from the beginning. Might want to keep that in mind.

Just received my Voodoo 3 2000 PCI and this has some serious issues with Commander Keen 4 and Commander Keen 5. The whole screen has an orange to yellow tint, setting SVGA compatibility doesn't resolve it.

The win 3.11 driver works fine 256 colors @ 1280x1024 works. Haven't tested this card with Win 98, but considering that is it's native environment it will probably work.

If anyone recognizes the issues with Commander Keen, please let me know what the solution is (if there's any). I thought VBE 3.0 cards would be able to do ANYthing.

I knew that the Commander Keen games had some issues with matrox cards. I tried that recently on my celeron which uses a G200. Indeed there were problems. Then I thought to try disabling the cpu cache. I run the game again, and like magic, the graphics problems all disappeared. It might be a lot different than your problem, but if you like you can try that.