vetz wrote:

idspispopd wrote:

Not even S3 MeTaL is included.

Been discussed in the past if this should be included or not. Do you guys want it on the list?

If you do decide to add it, there's an interesting little thread on it here:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=64088

vetz wrote:

idspispopd wrote:

Not even S3 MeTaL is included.

Been discussed in the past if this should be included or not. Do you guys want it on the list?

Wouldn't hurt. Would be mainly Unreal engine games anyway. MobyGames even has a list for these.

idspispopd wrote:

vetz wrote:

idspispopd wrote:

Not even S3 MeTaL is included.

Been discussed in the past if this should be included or not. Do you guys want it on the list?

Wouldn't hurt. Would be mainly Unreal engine games anyway. MobyGames even has a list for these.

If vetz does work on it, fact-checking that list would be cool. 😀

Well, here's my gpu (too much new for a too old computer rofl)
ATI RADEON 7200, 64mb, agp2x mode

Quake 2: Works
Need For Speed 2 SE:only software mode (is it only glide or software render?)
Half Life 1:Works (opengl only)
Warcraft 2 ms-dos:problem with video, there're alot of mixed lines on it
Warcraft 2 windows:Works
Duke Nukem 3D:Works at standart 320x200, but on vesa 320x200 or higher it gets the same problem that happen on war2
Monster Truck Madness: works
Tomb Raider II:Works
Tomb Raider III:Works
Commander Keen 5: Works (but the scenary movment is not smooth)
Alley Cat:Works
Many old dos games worked fine, just the newest one had some trouble...

ibm5155 wrote:

Well, here's my gpu (too much new for a too old computer rofl)

I don't think you understand the point of this thread...

Star Trek: Klingon Academy

It was Klingon Honor Guard, and that one has official PowerVR SGL support. It'll ask if you have a PowerVR card after saying No to the asking of the 3dfx card, the usual UnrealEngine 1.0 behavior.

Klingon Academy works as well (except for ships being transparent because alphas were used for additive luminance) but that's just Direct3D and doesn't belong here 😀

leileilol wrote:

Star Trek: Klingon Academy

It was Klingon Honor Guard, and that one has official PowerVR SGL support. It'll ask if you have a PowerVR card after saying No to the asking of the 3dfx card, the usual UnrealEngine 1.0 behavior.

Klingon Academy works as well (except for ships being transparent because alphas were used for additive luminance) but that's just Direct3D and doesn't belong here 😀

Honor Guard is already included in the PowerSGL list.

Klingon Academy I thought you hacked to get running? You got me mistaken with this screenshot in the PowerVR fun thread

Found some Boot magazine scans with review of the 3D hardware of the timeperiod (March 97):
ATI 3D Xpression+
Apocalypse 3D
Canopus Total3D
Monster3D/Righteous Orchid

I'll be incorporating these into the thread.

In other news I found the Sierra Screamin' 3D bundled version of Silent Thunder. That game is not on the Rendition Verite list as the bundled version had exclusive Direct3D support. I hope to release a patch. So that is another down on my list. Just missing a few PowerVR OEM/Japanese titles (Actua Soccer, Flight Unlimited, Purevex and Moonracer) and the Matrox Impression disc to have them all archived.

vetz wrote:

In other news I found the Sierra Screamin' 3D bundled version of Silent Thunder. That game is not on the Rendition Verite list as the bundled version had exclusive Direct3D support. I hope to release a patch. So that is another down on my list. .

Cool...

I might have found another game supporting the Rendition Verite through its API. Check out this back cover scan of DSF Ski '99: Extreme Edition (known as Ski Racing: Extreme Edition) by Sierra. It clearly explicitly only lists 3dfx and Rendition as supported cards. Unlikely then that it's using D3D. Neither have the game nor the card to test this though, just wanted to share this as I accidentally stumbled upon it.

Definitely interesting!

A quick google search turns up two different sources confirming 3DFX Glide and Rendition support. No idea how I've missed the Gamespot source, as I know I have been checking the Gamespot API support lists previously.

I'll test the demo and report back!

In other news, the Direct3D version of Silent Thunder seems to be Rendition only (any V1000 and probably V2200). I can't get it to run on any other Direct3D card as it crashes to desktop.

Good find!

Add this to the SGL section:

Unreal 224v patch breaks SGL support (PowerVR question still appears at startup, but renderer falls back to software). Assuming that this is intentional, 221 beta is the last version with official SGL support, if this list is complete. Unreal Gold lacks SGL completely.

Kernelex causes it to work on all vanilla versions.

sheath wrote:

By optimized Direct 3D do we mean optimized specifically for the Mystique in a way the regular retail version is not? I am prob […]
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Moto Racer - OEM version that was part of the bundle with the Mystique 220, but it is running on optimized Direct3D.

By optimized Direct 3D do we mean optimized specifically for the Mystique in a way the regular retail version is not? I am probably going to purchase as many Mystique editions as I can anyway, but I'd like to know whether this will look and play exactly like the normal retail game. Also, the other games that are specifically optimized for the Mystique, what do they use API wise to be so?

-edit-

Also, I just tested Quake II on the Mystique and while it runs perfectly at 640x480 in software mode I tried Open GL anyway. I can't remember why I would want to use Open GL but I remember the Mystique not having great support for it, but I also remember finding solutions to that back in the day. Can anybody jog my memory?

-edit-edit-

Okay, it looks like the Moto Racer 3.20 and 3.22 patches added support for Direct 3D and 4MB graphics cards respectively. The Mystique Edition is probably just the fully updated game, that's cool enough for me.

When MSI is used, just prior to the game launching you get a "Matrox" splash screen similar to the 3DFX logo when Glide is used and, IIRC, when RRedline is used on Rendition cards.

On the version of MotoRacer that was included with the Mystique220, that Matrox splash screen comes up, indicating that MSI is being used. I still have my Mystique220 (w/Rainbow Runner) and I've owned it since early 1998. That version of MotoRacer got me through many a night and the one thing I distinctly recall from playing it was the Matrox splash screen.

There was a patch available for MotoRacer that enabled D3D in this OEM version. I used it to continue playing the game after I had moved the Mystique from my gaming machine.

Now... Quake/Quake II on the Mystique: The publisher of the game Crime Cities, Techlandsoft, developed an OpenGL client for both the Mystique and the S3 Virge for use with the game. I did have the chance to use it with Quake and it worked fine, but didn't look much better than the regular software rendering engine because of the Mystique's lack of filtering. I'm pretty sure it could have been used for Quake2, but I can't recall ever running it.

misterjones wrote:

When MSI is used, just prior to the game launching you get a "Matrox" splash screen similar to the 3DFX logo when Glide is used […]
Show full quote

When MSI is used, just prior to the game launching you get a "Matrox" splash screen similar to the 3DFX logo when Glide is used and, IIRC, when RRedline is used on Rendition cards.

On the version of MotoRacer that was included with the Mystique220, that Matrox splash screen comes up, indicating that MSI is being used. I still have my Mystique220 (w/Rainbow Runner) and I've owned it since early 1998. That version of MotoRacer got me through many a night and the one thing I distinctly recall from playing it was the Matrox splash screen.

There was a patch available for MotoRacer that enabled D3D in this OEM version. I used it to continue playing the game after I had moved the Mystique from my gaming machine.

Now... Quake/Quake II on the Mystique: The publisher of the game Crime Cities, Techlandsoft, developed an OpenGL client for both the Mystique and the S3 Virge for use with the game. I did have the chance to use it with Quake and it worked fine, but didn't look much better than the regular software rendering engine because of the Mystique's lack of filtering. I'm pretty sure it could have been used for Quake2, but I can't recall ever running it.

It is correct that in some MSI games the Matrox splash screen do show up (only in DOS games), but this splash screen looks nothing like the one in MotoRacer. I had a post earlier where it was mentioned that the Matrox Mystique 220 OEM version do run on other Direct3D cards. You even get bilinear filtering! If it was MSI it wouldn't even start on other cards. It doesn't run properly on other cards though, the menu and game has some graphical glitches and I feel the OEM version do run better on Matrox cards than the regular retail version (though the latest patch closed this gap tremendously).

From Putas webpage regarding Techland OpenGL. This sounds to me completely broken (also unsupported by Matrox).

Incidentally OpenGL games can give a hint of Matrox'es Simple Interface, because Techland wrote a driver for their game using Quake 3 engine based on MSI library. Quake games looks bad for all the hardware limitations and in first Quake world is not even textured, or more precisely lightmaps are not blended with textures. The framerate is not any higher anyway. - See more at: http://www.vintage3d.org/mga1.php#sthash.OL0YYYvu.dpuf

Pedantic (for misterjones): Splash screen logos can always possibly be fake, part of the game. Remember the "Powered by Nvidia" logos in mid 2000's games and what not.

The only sure way to know you're running a Windows game that calls a proprietary 3D API that's pretty easy for most people to do is to load a game's binaries and DLLs with Dependency Walker, in my opinion.

vetz wrote:

It is correct that in some MSI games the Matrox splash screen do show up (only in DOS games), but this splash screen looks nothi […]
Show full quote

misterjones wrote:

When MSI is used, just prior to the game launching you get a "Matrox" splash screen similar to the 3DFX logo when Glide is used […]
Show full quote

When MSI is used, just prior to the game launching you get a "Matrox" splash screen similar to the 3DFX logo when Glide is used and, IIRC, when RRedline is used on Rendition cards.

On the version of MotoRacer that was included with the Mystique220, that Matrox splash screen comes up, indicating that MSI is being used. I still have my Mystique220 (w/Rainbow Runner) and I've owned it since early 1998. That version of MotoRacer got me through many a night and the one thing I distinctly recall from playing it was the Matrox splash screen.

There was a patch available for MotoRacer that enabled D3D in this OEM version. I used it to continue playing the game after I had moved the Mystique from my gaming machine.

Now... Quake/Quake II on the Mystique: The publisher of the game Crime Cities, Techlandsoft, developed an OpenGL client for both the Mystique and the S3 Virge for use with the game. I did have the chance to use it with Quake and it worked fine, but didn't look much better than the regular software rendering engine because of the Mystique's lack of filtering. I'm pretty sure it could have been used for Quake2, but I can't recall ever running it.

It is correct that in some MSI games the Matrox splash screen do show up (only in DOS games), but this splash screen looks nothing like the one in MotoRacer. I had a post earlier where it was mentioned that the Matrox Mystique 220 OEM version do run on other Direct3D cards. You even get bilinear filtering! If it was MSI it wouldn't even start on other cards. It doesn't run properly on other cards though, the menu and game has some graphical glitches and I feel the OEM version do run better on Matrox cards than the regular retail version (though the latest patch closed this gap tremendously).

From Putas webpage regarding Techland OpenGL. This sounds to me completely broken (also unsupported by Matrox).

Incidentally OpenGL games can give a hint of Matrox'es Simple Interface, because Techland wrote a driver for their game using Quake 3 engine based on MSI library. Quake games looks bad for all the hardware limitations and in first Quake world is not even textured, or more precisely lightmaps are not blended with textures. The framerate is not any higher anyway. - See more at: http://www.vintage3d.org/mga1.php#sthash.OL0YYYvu.dpuf

@ the bolded: That's just it - I couldn't run the MotoRacer that I had with any other card I owned until I applied a patch. I was stuck playing it with the Mystique. Not that this was a bad thing. I can't remember if I got the patch directly from Matrox (to support the G-series via D3D), or from EA. If I'm lucky, there's a couple of old cd's I have that still have a bunch of installers from back then, maybe one will have it.

Stiletto wrote:

Pedantic (for misterjones): Splash screen logos can always possibly be fake, part of the game. Remember the "Powered by Nvidia" logos in mid 2000's games and what not.

The only sure way to know you're running a Windows game that calls a proprietary 3D API that's pretty easy for most people to do is to load a game's binaries and DLLs with Dependency Walker, in my opinion.

Now I'm going to have to dig out that card and hope I can find that CD. I think I still have it. I know I still have the Rainbow Runner CD's, but not so sure about the Mystique's CD.

I did once try the Techland D3D MiniGL with the Matrox G100A (which doesn't support MSI but is strongly similar to Mystique anyway) and got a dithered up alpha-blended lightmap in Quake2.

Now I see how poorly worded it was. The MSI "minigl" is definitely usable, just the world lighting technique of first Quake is not done correctly. And "framerate is not any higher" relates to performance of d3d wrappers, not software renderer. It scales as expected. Oh well, the Matrox articles will be revised for more reasons.

I can now confirm that Sento and Creep Clash only works with Matrox Impression. When trying to run the MGA executable on Matrox Millennium an error says: "Cannot initiate Renderware render".

Framerate is okeyish on a 486 (Pentium recommended). 640x400 at 16bit color. The high resolution is not available through software mode.