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Voodoo 2 DOS Glide compatibility matrix

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Reply 240 of 347, by Yesterplay80

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bytesaber wrote:

The Voodoo1 provides a 640x480 experience. A single Voodoo2 provides 800x600, and a SLI paired Voodoo2 provides a 1024x768 experience. An SLI pair can be compared to a Voodoo3 with varying differences at 1024x768.

Does this apply to DOS as well?

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Reply 241 of 347, by bytesaber

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No, but maybe yes?

DOS based 3D games use replacement executable files, which are patched with code to make use of a vendor specific video card. Tomb Raider 1 tends to be a "goto" game for this discussion. It was shipped with a handful of different replacement executable files you can try on various video cards. ATI, 3Dfx, S3, PowerVR, etc... These executable files are just called patches. This is just how things were in the DOS era, before standardized API's settled out. DirectX is a main example.

Tomb Raider has 2 different choices from the 3dfx family. One made for the Voodoo1, and another made for the Voodoo Rush. The patch (the executable you replaced) is really "the driver" for the game to use the specific card. All of the 3D instruction calls are made directly from the game to the video card. So if you consider that these patches are really the source, then you could see the video cards as just performing what they are told. Since they are closed source files, there is no way to tweak them to have them make use of more resolution or frame rates, than whatever they were hard coded with. I have seen the Voodoo Rush patch work on a Voodoo2 card, in a DOS 6.22 system. The performance doesn't appear to be any different than it would be on an older Voodoo Rush. The Voodoo2 is just doing what is asked of it. The game runs at 640x480 at 30fps. A low performance for Voodoo2.

Another perspective, is that there really are no DOS era 3dfx games. In Tomb Raider's case (A DOS game), the patch for Voodoo1 became available well after the game launched. The 3D patches are found on the GOLD edition. Voodoo1 is a card aimed at gaming on Windows 9x, which is a "DOS based" operating system. People on this site have been able to rig a DOS 6.22 system to play some 3Dfx games directly in pure DOS 6.22 and a Voodoo2, by configuring various .ovl files and libraries to be in the right place on a hard drive. In my opinion, it really is just tricking the game to find what it's looking for, and DOS 6.22 happens to meet all of it's needs outside of that.

Reply 242 of 347, by vetz

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Yesterplay80 wrote:
bytesaber wrote:

The Voodoo1 provides a 640x480 experience. A single Voodoo2 provides 800x600, and a SLI paired Voodoo2 provides a 1024x768 experience. An SLI pair can be compared to a Voodoo3 with varying differences at 1024x768.

Does this apply to DOS as well?

Yes, some few DOS Glide games support 800x600, see the first post.

bytesaber wrote:

People on this site have been able to rig a DOS 6.22 system to play some 3Dfx games directly in pure DOS 6.22 and a Voodoo2, by configuring various .ovl files and libraries to be in the right place on a hard drive. In my opinion, it really is just tricking the game to find what it's looking for, and DOS 6.22 happens to meet all of it's needs outside of that.

You are correct. The Voodoo cards primary operating system was Win9x. No driver release ever had an "only DOS" install option, but it's possible as you say to get the games going without Windows by doing some manual tinkering.

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
3D Acceleration Comparison Episodes

Reply 243 of 347, by bytesaber

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Yep, good call. Some games can ask for 800x600, and a better card can be of use in that case.

The example I was going with, was just showing how Tomb Raider, regardless of which official 3dfx patch you choose, never asks for more than 640x480 of any voodoo card. At least, I don't think it does. So it's not the card's fault for running at a lower res. It's the game (the patch) not asking to use a higher res. It never uses the Voodoo2 higher resolution ability. Not a fault of the card.

Side note: A friend just told me the PowerVR patch for Tomb Raider will offer 800x600 and 1024x768, if you have a card to match it with.

Reply 244 of 347, by colpoz

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So there are only 4 games that you need a Voodoo1 to play in "3dfx mode"?

If yes, is correct to say that a Voodoo2 is generally better than a Voodoo1 also for DOS games, except for that very little incompatibility?

RetroPc I: Asus P3V4X - PentiumIII 1000MHz - 256MB Ram - Geforce3 Ti 200 - SLI VoodooII 12MB - Aureal Vortex2 - HDD 80GB - Win98 SE
RetroPc II: Asus P5A - K6-2 333MHz - 64MB Ram - Geforce2 MX - Voodoo 4MB - Soundblaster AWE64 - HDD 13GB - Win95

Reply 246 of 347, by konc

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If by "better" we only refer to performance, of course. But there's the usual tradeoff between performance and simplicity. I personally ended up using a V1 to avoid sourcing/applying third-party patches, using batch files, making sure specific .ovl are in place etc. Others might enjoy this more, I don't know... I wasn't targeting performance anyway and a V1 is good enough for me.

Reply 248 of 347, by FeedingDragon

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firage wrote:

V2's also have wider compatibility with later systems. Sometimes that's the only thing that matters.

Like your avatar 😀 I played jumpman for hours in the computer lab in high school.

As for my system, I ended up going 3 generations Voodoo for my system. Voodoo 1, 2x Voodoo 2 SLI, & Voodoo 3 AGP. I actually tried 5 different AGP cards before settling on the V3, all with their own problems 🙁 Settled on the V3 because the price was right ($10, $18 with shipping, plus another $5 for the octopus.) It also was the last one with Windows 3.x drivers (my system is DOS 6 with Windows 3.1, dual booting with Windows 98.) Finally, just the thought of 3 generations of Voodoo cards set my brain on fire 😀 After quite a bit of work, finally got it all running just fine. Most of the time, I go with whatever is best, over all, for each game. With my P3-1.1Ghz processor (though I do slow it down for the V1 most of the time,) there isn't much of a performance hit regardless of the card used 😀

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Reply 249 of 347, by PhilsComputerLab

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konc wrote:

If by "better" we only refer to performance, of course. But there's the usual tradeoff between performance and simplicity.

I'm with you on simplicity 😀

And because I had a Voodoo back in the day, it feels special using it. And Tomb Raider looks a bit different with the Rush patch.

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Reply 250 of 347, by vetz

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Another thing to take into consideration is the visual signal quality. Voodoo1 looks more muddy than the Voodoo2, and Voodoo3 is a real significant upgrade over 1/2 in all games.

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
3D Acceleration Comparison Episodes

Reply 251 of 347, by PhilsComputerLab

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Agreed 😀

And then the V4 and V5 can force 32 bit colours and AA. It never ends 😊

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Reply 252 of 347, by willow

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bytesaber wrote:

Another perspective, is that there really are no DOS era 3dfx games. In Tomb Raider's case (A DOS game), the patch for Voodoo1 became available well after the game launched. The 3D patches are found on the GOLD edition. Voodoo1 is a card aimed at gaming on Windows 9x, which is a "DOS based" operating system. People on this site have been able to rig a DOS 6.22 system to play some 3Dfx games directly in pure DOS 6.22 and a Voodoo2, by configuring various .ovl files and libraries to be in the right place on a hard drive. In my opinion, it really is just tricking the game to find what it's looking for, and DOS 6.22 happens to meet all of it's needs outside of that.

I am not agree. I played on my pentium90+3dfx1 with screamer rally on pure dos without windows.

Reply 253 of 347, by bytesaber

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The idea I was trying to propose, is that no vendors from the time were officially targetting MS-DOS users. The Voodoo1, 3dfx patches for existing games, and 3dfx new games, all became available after Windows 95 was established. However, since many of the games that received patches were DOS based, it was possible to setup a 3dfx working game without Windows.

The truth is, it is not a very inspiring point. Just a perspective about the time period.

Reply 254 of 347, by willow

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bytesaber wrote:

The idea I was trying to propose, is that no vendors from the time were officially targetting MS-DOS users. The Voodoo1, 3dfx patches for existing games, and 3dfx new games, all became available after Windows 95 was established. However, since many of the games that received patches were DOS based, it was possible to setup a 3dfx working game without Windows.

The truth is, it is not a very inspiring point. Just a perspective about the time period.

It's normal to aim the current os but here you state the obvious. The marketing can't aim a old os even if the product is compatible, it's a nonsense. A 1080 aim windows10 but it's works very well on windows 7 or 8. 3dfx aims windows 95 but works very well on dos. Even some games like lands of lore 2 had 3dfx version only with dos version because win 95 version used only directx.

Reply 255 of 347, by colpoz

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Today I tried to play Screamer 2 with the Voodoo2 patch.

The game works, but I noticed the patch is bugged and it alters the gameplay!!

Sometimes it seems that the car goes into a "turbo" mode and it starts to run too fast... note that I'm not speaking about the "game" is too fast (similar to some 386 games when played on a fast pc) but what becomes too fast is the car.
Suddently it accelerates and it gets up a speed that is impossible to get with the standard retail game (without 3D accelerations)... for example in Track 1, default car, default settings, manual gearbox, in 2D mode I can reach 120 Mph speed at maximum in 3^ gear, while with Voodoo2 patch I can easily go at 135-140Mph in some parts of the track...!!!

RetroPc I: Asus P3V4X - PentiumIII 1000MHz - 256MB Ram - Geforce3 Ti 200 - SLI VoodooII 12MB - Aureal Vortex2 - HDD 80GB - Win98 SE
RetroPc II: Asus P5A - K6-2 333MHz - 64MB Ram - Geforce2 MX - Voodoo 4MB - Soundblaster AWE64 - HDD 13GB - Win95

Reply 256 of 347, by Sammy

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This happens in Screamer Rally too.

And if you look at the opponents, in Screamer Rally, they crash more often than normal.

but this only happens if your cpu is faster than 1 Ghz...

with 500 Mhz P3 the game runs fine, but with 1,5 Ghz P4 it plays other than normal.

With 3 GHz cpu you can see the cars slowly moving sideways when standing on track before the start.

Reply 257 of 347, by colpoz

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I played on a K6-2 333 Mhz

RetroPc I: Asus P3V4X - PentiumIII 1000MHz - 256MB Ram - Geforce3 Ti 200 - SLI VoodooII 12MB - Aureal Vortex2 - HDD 80GB - Win98 SE
RetroPc II: Asus P5A - K6-2 333MHz - 64MB Ram - Geforce2 MX - Voodoo 4MB - Soundblaster AWE64 - HDD 13GB - Win95

Reply 258 of 347, by Gamecollector

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By the way, it looks like NIRA: Intence Import Drag Racing is the DOS glide game too.

Asus P4P800 SE/Pentium4 3.2E/2 Gb DDR400B,
Radeon HD3850 Agp (Sapphire), Catalyst 14.4 (XpProSp3).
Voodoo2 12 MB SLI, Win2k drivers 1.02.00 (XpProSp3).

Reply 259 of 347, by meljor

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@vetz : can you please fix the dead link on page 2 about the v3 compatibility list?

asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1