Windows 95 Dos window video problem

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Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby shaq » 2016-12-28 @ 07:46

Whenever I play a game in a dos window I can play one game or mission and can't play it again unless I load a different windows program. For instance, in JF3 I can fly one mission and if I try again it will automatically go to the mission briefing and refuse to load the flight sequence. If I exit the game I will usually get a full screen of random colors a split second before I am back in Windows. If I then try to do a normal command prompt window I get no video at all. If I run dxdiag or a windows game and quit I can then go to command prompt or go back to JF3 and play only one more mission before it happens again.

This is not only with JF3. If I load EF2000 the same thing occurs. So there is a video problem here somewhere. It only happens with windowed dos games. Has anyone had this problem before? I also can't get my digital joystick to work with EF2000, but that is another matter.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby Ampera » 2016-12-28 @ 07:51

The DOS window system is notoriously buggy. I suggest you vanilla DOS or boot up in DOS mode.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby Jorpho » 2016-12-28 @ 14:30

I wouldn't say that the "DOS window system" is "buggy"; it's just that it cannot accommodate all the wacky things that DOS games try to do.

Just play your DOS games in fullscreen. (And don't alt-tab out of them either.)
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby shaq » 2016-12-28 @ 20:50

I do play them in fullscreen and I tried some of the compatibility options like "prevent ms-dos program from detecting windows" and following tips from the site below. I have tried different video cards and drivers so I think it is a windows problem somewhere. I was hoping someone would recognize the symptoms I am having. Could it be that these are voodoo games and the voodoo card/driver doesn't like it? I will try some non-voodoo games and see if it still happens. I can play the mission as long as I like but if I switch in and out it breaks even within a short amount of time. The manual suggests to use DOS because it is faster, but it doesn't state that it is broken like it is now.

http://web.fis.unico.it/public/faqs/win95_old/faq12.htm
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby Jorpho » 2016-12-28 @ 21:26

shaq wrote:I do play them in fullscreen
Then what exactly do you mean by "windowed dos games" ? Do you mean "DOS games in Windows" ?

If you're still having problems in fullscreen, then I agree that booting in DOS mode is often a good idea.

I can play the mission as long as I like but if I switch in and out it breaks even within a short amount of time.
By "switch in and out", do you mean with alt-tab, or what? Even modern Windows games still have problems with that.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2016-12-29 @ 01:56

You should shut-down your machine into MS-DOS mode and configure everything there.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby Ampera » 2016-12-29 @ 02:22

You could also try OS/2 as it has possibly better DOS in window support.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby shaq » 2016-12-29 @ 02:35

Jorpho wrote:
shaq wrote:I do play them in fullscreen
Then what exactly do you mean by "windowed dos games" ? Do you mean "DOS games in Windows" ?

If you're still having problems in fullscreen, then I agree that booting in DOS mode is often a good idea.

I can play the mission as long as I like but if I switch in and out it breaks even within a short amount of time.
By "switch in and out", do you mean with alt-tab, or what? Even modern Windows games still have problems with that.


I mean switch in and out of the flight mode to the debriefing screen. I can't enter the flight mode more than once per session. I have to load a windows program to get video in a Dos session again. I am going to do some more testing to see what video card might be the problem since I have a 5200 and a Voodoo card in there right now. I had a Voodoo 2, but Fighting Falcon would lock up after shooting any targets and is fine with the Voodoo so far. I am having lots of little troubles like this getting this system configured correctly, but I keep getting there a little at a time. 81.98 drivers corrupted the menu screen in if-22 so I had to go to an older set. It could even be a driver issue I suppose that is causing this.

I prefer to play dos games in windows so I can have access to digital joysticks since they don't work in dos.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby chinny22 » 2016-12-29 @ 15:30

Maybe open a command prompt window and run the game from there rather then just clicking on the exe file? (if your not doing that already)
I've had programs that don't like running direct from windows as such but running from a dos window is ok
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby shaq » 2016-12-29 @ 20:50

Thanks for the advice chinny22. I have narrowed it down to the voodoo card. I can play a non-voodoo game and go in and out of dos just fine, but not for voodoo dos games. Voodoo windows games are okay too. It is actually worse with the Voodoo 1 than the Voodoo 2, but they both do it. I have been clicking on the exe and will try from the command prompt window later today.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby meljor » 2016-12-29 @ 22:40

a voodoo can only do full screen so no windowed mode.
asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby shaq » 2016-12-31 @ 07:24

Unfortunately that didn't work and I still can't play voodoo dos games in fullscreen while in Win95. Is this a known problem? It happened with both my voodoo 1 and 2 cards with obviously different drivers. Has anyone here played a dos glide game while in windows?
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby Ampera » 2016-12-31 @ 07:27

Why can't you reboot into MS-DOS mode? There is 0 reason to use a window, and honestly, for best DOS support, use DOS!. PC DOS is my pick, PC DOS 2000 is great if you can find it. The China DOS Union also has their DOS 7.10 package, and there is always FreeDOS.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby chinny22 » 2016-12-31 @ 10:37

I would try booting into MS-DOS mode and testing from there.
DOS games have the voodoo driver built in to the game (sort of) Maybe the windows driver is conflicting with it?
or maybe its just the game install? this will confirm one way or the other.
You soundcard wont be configured for dos most likely but that's ok were just testing

Ampera wrote:Why can't you reboot into MS-DOS mode? There is 0 reason to use a window, and honestly, for best DOS support, use DOS!. PC DOS is my pick, PC DOS 2000 is great if you can find it. The China DOS Union also has their DOS 7.10 package, and there is always FreeDOS.


While I agree with for best support use dos and its not ideal I wouldn't say there is 0 reason to use a dos window.
If you have a SoundBlaster AWE you can load soundfonts for dos games, something you cant do in native dos and some sound cards have no dos drivers but do have sound blaster compatibility in windows.

What I never got is why people bothered duel booting between Win9x and old version of DOS when 9x has built in support for duel booting to its built in DOS 7. Just create a shortcut to command.com enable force MS-DOS mode and modify the config/autoexec entries, done! but to each their own, some people will say just use emulation.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby Jorpho » 2016-12-31 @ 19:20

Ampera wrote:Why can't you reboot into MS-DOS mode? There is 0 reason to use a window, and honestly, for best DOS support, use DOS!.
As has been mentioned, the key sticking point is the digital joystick that won't work in DOS.

(There is the old SDWRGMPD utility that might help there, but I doubt it.)
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby Ampera » 2016-12-31 @ 19:49

chinny22 wrote:I would try booting into MS-DOS mode and testing from there.
DOS games have the voodoo driver built in to the game (sort of) Maybe the windows driver is conflicting with it?
or maybe its just the game install? this will confirm one way or the other.
You soundcard wont be configured for dos most likely but that's ok were just testing

Ampera wrote:Why can't you reboot into MS-DOS mode? There is 0 reason to use a window, and honestly, for best DOS support, use DOS!. PC DOS is my pick, PC DOS 2000 is great if you can find it. The China DOS Union also has their DOS 7.10 package, and there is always FreeDOS.


While I agree with for best support use dos and its not ideal I wouldn't say there is 0 reason to use a dos window.
If you have a SoundBlaster AWE you can load soundfonts for dos games, something you cant do in native dos and some sound cards have no dos drivers but do have sound blaster compatibility in windows.

What I never got is why people bothered duel booting between Win9x and old version of DOS when 9x has built in support for duel booting to its built in DOS 7. Just create a shortcut to command.com enable force MS-DOS mode and modify the config/autoexec entries, done! but to each their own, some people will say just use emulation.


Not true. AWEUTIL can load MT32, GM, and GS soundfonts just fine.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby shaq » 2017-1-01 @ 04:33

Jorpho wrote:
Ampera wrote:Why can't you reboot into MS-DOS mode? There is 0 reason to use a window, and honestly, for best DOS support, use DOS!.
As has been mentioned, the key sticking point is the digital joystick that won't work in DOS.

(There is the old SDWRGMPD utility that might help there, but I doubt it.)


Yeah I noticed that earlier but it says it is only for the gamepad. I may just have to use svn dosbox on my main PC to play the dos glide games. That is what I was doing before but the SB emulation is much worse than a real AWE 64 and there are some issues with stuttering and clicking audio as well. The games seem much smoother on the hardware they were built for.

chinny22 wrote:I would try booting into MS-DOS mode and testing from there.
DOS games have the voodoo driver built in to the game (sort of) Maybe the windows driver is conflicting with it?
or maybe its just the game install? this will confirm one way or the other.
You soundcard wont be configured for dos most likely but that's ok were just testing

Ampera wrote:Why can't you reboot into MS-DOS mode? There is 0 reason to use a window, and honestly, for best DOS support, use DOS!. PC DOS is my pick, PC DOS 2000 is great if you can find it. The China DOS Union also has their DOS 7.10 package, and there is always FreeDOS.


While I agree with for best support use dos and its not ideal I wouldn't say there is 0 reason to use a dos window.
If you have a SoundBlaster AWE you can load soundfonts for dos games, something you cant do in native dos and some sound cards have no dos drivers but do have sound blaster compatibility in windows.

What I never got is why people bothered duel booting between Win9x and old version of DOS when 9x has built in support for duel booting to its built in DOS 7. Just create a shortcut to command.com enable force MS-DOS mode and modify the config/autoexec entries, done! but to each their own, some people will say just use emulation.


DOS works just fine. I have flown a few missions in a row with no problem. I finally got everything configured on the AWE 64 so all sound works. The biggest issue is the no digital joystick support in DOS, which means I would have to buy an analog flight joystick. I may look to see what I can get on ebay or just play them in dosbox. I find it strange that nobody seems to want to play glide games in windows if for nothing else than sheer convenience and digital joysticks is a huge plus especially for flight sims since more buttons can be configured. Also in windows games can be individually configurable with pif files. But in JF3 the game will stream the terrain off of the CD so there are 3 sec pauses to wait for the cd drive to spool up. I have copied all the files to the hard drive, but the game doesn't see them. So my way around this was to make an ISO of the cd and put it on the hard drive and there are no pauses this way. I don't think you can do that in dos to my knowledge.

So my problem is in the windows drivers I suppose since DOS is fine.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby Ampera » 2017-1-01 @ 05:22

Try OS/2 Warp 4. It has joystick and DOS in window support, possibly better than that of Windows.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby Jorpho » 2017-1-01 @ 19:41

Ampera wrote:Try OS/2 Warp 4. It has joystick and DOS in window support, possibly better than that of Windows.
Unless there are drivers available for this specific digital joystick (which seems very unlikely), I doubt that will be helpful.
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Re: Windows 95 Dos window video problem

Postby chinny22 » 2017-1-03 @ 14:18

Maybe this is of help? not sure which Voodoo you actually have!
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=35721

Also maybe try a different windows driver. I like the reference or the fastvoodoo drivers depending on which system I'm using
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