1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Discussion about old graphics cards, monitors and video related things.

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby lazibayer » 2017-2-13 @ 02:01

Tetrium wrote:
ElDavo wrote:and the Voodoo 3000 wont even fit in the slot.

How is this even possible? Sometimes you have to wiggle it a bit. And just to be sure, you are not trying to fit a PCI V3 into an AGP slot, right??


I guess because his board has the 1.5V slot.
User avatar
lazibayer
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: 2014-10-21 @ 21:16

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby Tetrium » 2017-2-13 @ 19:27

lazibayer wrote:
Tetrium wrote:
ElDavo wrote:and the Voodoo 3000 wont even fit in the slot.

How is this even possible? Sometimes you have to wiggle it a bit. And just to be sure, you are not trying to fit a PCI V3 into an AGP slot, right??


I guess because his board has the 1.5V slot.

Doh lol!

I overread him using a P4 rig for testing his graphics cards and not his Slot 1 board :dead:
Makes sense now :blush:
User avatar
Tetrium
l33t++
 
Posts: 7718
Joined: 2010-1-27 @ 18:53
Location: Netherlands

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby meljor » 2017-2-13 @ 19:27

Tetrium is thinking about a v3 pci not fitting in a pci slot, but he has an agp card and ofcourse the 3,3v voodoo3 does not fit in a p4 board with a 1,5v slot.
asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1
meljor
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1735
Joined: 2014-4-30 @ 19:43
Location: Netherlands

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby meljor » 2017-2-13 @ 19:28

aahh...too slow :lol: and wrong as well :dead:
asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1
meljor
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1735
Joined: 2014-4-30 @ 19:43
Location: Netherlands

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby Tetrium » 2017-2-13 @ 20:02

meljor wrote:aahh...too slow :lol: and wrong as well :dead:

lmao! Must've been those 1700 pics on th99 that I went through today that drained my mind only to notice the board I was th99-ing actually had the model number on a sticker visible on the board :dead:

But at least the other board also had the same yellow sticker so he did get the model numbers of his 2 "unknown" 486 boards :D
User avatar
Tetrium
l33t++
 
Posts: 7718
Joined: 2010-1-27 @ 18:53
Location: Netherlands

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby ElDavo » 2017-2-13 @ 20:38

[quote How is this even possible? Sometimes you have to wiggle it a bit. And just to be sure, you are not trying to fit a PCI V3 into an AGP slot, right??[/quote]

The XP PC Has an AGP3 8X slot and the Voodoo 3 is I believe a AGP 1 2x Card the Windows 98 PC (The Beige avenger) has an AGP 2 4x slot which I guess is backwards compatible.
Beige Avenger: Windows 98 P3 600MHZ Voodoo 3 3000 128MB SDR
Untitled: Windows XP E8200 3.2GHZ Nvidia Geforce 9800 GTX+ 4GB DDR2
Charlene Charlene Meredith Workgroup: Windows 10 i5 6600k 4.8ghz GTX1070 16GB DDR4
User avatar
ElDavo
Newbie
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 2015-12-14 @ 11:38
Location: England

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby ElDavo » 2017-2-13 @ 20:47

I just find it strange that I can't play Dungeon Keeper 2 on a high end contemporary machine, maybe it's just that DK2 is a pig to run? I know that it doesn't run sim city 3000 very well either but I think that was a well known game for needing a really beefy processor at the time.

perhaps the Processor is the 'bottleneck' as far as DK is concerned as 3 different graphics cards produce very similar results and changing the resolution doesn't make much difference either...

I'll try and run them on my windows XP machine instead currently it's not liking DK2 at all but Im guessing there will be a patch somewhere that can fix it, and i'll look into that when I've got more time.
Beige Avenger: Windows 98 P3 600MHZ Voodoo 3 3000 128MB SDR
Untitled: Windows XP E8200 3.2GHZ Nvidia Geforce 9800 GTX+ 4GB DDR2
Charlene Charlene Meredith Workgroup: Windows 10 i5 6600k 4.8ghz GTX1070 16GB DDR4
User avatar
ElDavo
Newbie
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 2015-12-14 @ 11:38
Location: England

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby Tetrium » 2017-2-13 @ 23:02

ElDavo wrote:
How is this even possible? Sometimes you have to wiggle it a bit. And just to be sure, you are not trying to fit a PCI V3 into an AGP slot, right??


The XP PC Has an AGP3 8X slot and the Voodoo 3 is I believe a AGP 1 2x Card the Windows 98 PC (The Beige avenger) has an AGP 2 4x slot which I guess is backwards compatible.

Yes I know. Btw not all boards that physically have an universal AGP slot may actually work with the older AGP cards (stuff may fry).
With computers, it's not that if it fits, it will thus work :dead:

btw I fixed your quote :blush:
User avatar
Tetrium
l33t++
 
Posts: 7718
Joined: 2010-1-27 @ 18:53
Location: Netherlands

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby ElDavo » 2017-2-14 @ 19:03

Lucky my G400 didn't fry then :|

I will learn to quote properly one day... one day dankjewel :p
Beige Avenger: Windows 98 P3 600MHZ Voodoo 3 3000 128MB SDR
Untitled: Windows XP E8200 3.2GHZ Nvidia Geforce 9800 GTX+ 4GB DDR2
Charlene Charlene Meredith Workgroup: Windows 10 i5 6600k 4.8ghz GTX1070 16GB DDR4
User avatar
ElDavo
Newbie
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 2015-12-14 @ 11:38
Location: England

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby Tetrium » 2017-2-14 @ 20:24

ElDavo wrote:Lucky my G400 didn't fry then :|

I will learn to quote properly one day... one day dankjewel :p

yw :)

You can always ask :P

There's so much little bits of information floating around, the trick is to find the information you need and the easiest way to accomplish that is to find the right person to ask your question to. But most question can be found with a little bit of fiddling around, by doing lots of reading is that's your thing and (believe it or not) by reading the actual manuals...or old reviews.

Some P4 chipsets had a physical AGP 4x slot, but would not work with AGP 2x cards that run on 3.3v and in our case this mainly affects 3DFX AGP cards.
User avatar
Tetrium
l33t++
 
Posts: 7718
Joined: 2010-1-27 @ 18:53
Location: Netherlands

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby meljor » 2017-2-14 @ 22:10

The Matrox G400 is a 3,3v and 1,5v capable card so no worries about that one.
asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1
meljor
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1735
Joined: 2014-4-30 @ 19:43
Location: Netherlands

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby vlask » 2017-2-14 @ 22:45

Never seen any GeForce 2MX sold without heatsink! Last nvidia card not using any cooling was Riva Vanta LT 8MB. Every Geforce had any. So there are 2 explanations why yours is so slow.
1]Someone removed heatsink from your card and now its overheating
2]Dell made it without heatsink as 2D office card - in this case they probably downclocked core a lot to avoid heat and thats why it is so slow. Check core clock of card (with rivatuner or Aida64). Official clocks are

Geforce 2MX/2MX 200 - 175MHz
Geforce 2MX 400 - 200MHz
Not only mine graphics cards collection at http://www.vgamuseum.info
vlask
Member
 
Posts: 409
Joined: 2009-6-29 @ 18:01
Location: Czech Republic

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby Tetrium » 2017-2-15 @ 15:27

vlask wrote:Never seen any GeForce 2MX sold without heatsink! Last nvidia card not using any cooling was Riva Vanta LT 8MB. Every Geforce had any. So there are 2 explanations why yours is so slow.
1]Someone removed heatsink from your card and now its overheating
2]Dell made it without heatsink as 2D office card - in this case they probably downclocked core a lot to avoid heat and thats why it is so slow. Check core clock of card (with rivatuner or Aida64). Official clocks are

Geforce 2MX/2MX 200 - 175MHz
Geforce 2MX 400 - 200MHz

Iirc Meljor and me already had a little convo about this phenomenon and there were several Vogoners who had seen these heatsinkless MX cards. They are probably indeed OEM cards.

This doesn't exclude the possibility that someone simply removed the heatsink from the card.

Vanta LT did indeed not have a heatsink, I've used one myself years ago and could be considered a nice option for 2D-only on boards with problematic AGP slots.
User avatar
Tetrium
l33t++
 
Posts: 7718
Joined: 2010-1-27 @ 18:53
Location: Netherlands

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby ElDavo » 2017-2-15 @ 17:06

image1.JPG


This is the MX of mystery it is a dell Oem card and i have seen quite a few other ones around on ebay. it out performs the mx200(like it should) but also gives off hardly any heat whereas the Mx200 with a fan was pretty hot
Beige Avenger: Windows 98 P3 600MHZ Voodoo 3 3000 128MB SDR
Untitled: Windows XP E8200 3.2GHZ Nvidia Geforce 9800 GTX+ 4GB DDR2
Charlene Charlene Meredith Workgroup: Windows 10 i5 6600k 4.8ghz GTX1070 16GB DDR4
User avatar
ElDavo
Newbie
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 2015-12-14 @ 11:38
Location: England

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby kanecvr » 2017-2-16 @ 19:31

Deksor wrote:Also which drivers did you use ?
NEVER EVER use the latest nvidia drivers for windows 9x. The 45.x drivers should be the last to be used IMO. The same thing goes for directx 9. You really don't need it as most computers running 9x won't be fast enough to really make dx9 games enjoyable, and dx9 creates some incompatibilities, so it's better to stick to dx8 unless you REALLY need it.

If you didn't do all of this, this will probably solve your performance issue ;)


^this.
User avatar
kanecvr
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1957
Joined: 2015-4-22 @ 20:30
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby ElDavo » 2017-2-16 @ 21:25

kanecvr wrote:
Deksor wrote:Also which drivers did you use ?
NEVER EVER use the latest nvidia drivers for windows 9x. The 45.x drivers should be the last to be used IMO. The same thing goes for directx 9. You really don't need it as most computers running 9x won't be fast enough to really make dx9 games enjoyable, and dx9 creates some incompatibilities, so it's better to stick to dx8 unless you REALLY need it.

If you didn't do all of this, this will probably solve your performance issue ;)


^this.


3d Mark 2000 scores with latest driver: 3052
with 45: 3315

A nice 10%ish increase there

thanks guys :D
Beige Avenger: Windows 98 P3 600MHZ Voodoo 3 3000 128MB SDR
Untitled: Windows XP E8200 3.2GHZ Nvidia Geforce 9800 GTX+ 4GB DDR2
Charlene Charlene Meredith Workgroup: Windows 10 i5 6600k 4.8ghz GTX1070 16GB DDR4
User avatar
ElDavo
Newbie
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 2015-12-14 @ 11:38
Location: England

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby meljor » 2017-2-16 @ 23:37

Tetrium wrote:
vlask wrote:Never seen any GeForce 2MX sold without heatsink! Last nvidia card not using any cooling was Riva Vanta LT 8MB. Every Geforce had any. So there are 2 explanations why yours is so slow.
1]Someone removed heatsink from your card and now its overheating
2]Dell made it without heatsink as 2D office card - in this case they probably downclocked core a lot to avoid heat and thats why it is so slow. Check core clock of card (with rivatuner or Aida64). Official clocks are

Geforce 2MX/2MX 200 - 175MHz
Geforce 2MX 400 - 200MHz

Iirc Meljor and me already had a little convo about this phenomenon and there were several Vogoners who had seen these heatsinkless MX cards. They are probably indeed OEM cards.

This doesn't exclude the possibility that someone simply removed the heatsink from the card.

Vanta LT did indeed not have a heatsink, I've used one myself years ago and could be considered a nice option for 2D-only on boards with problematic AGP slots.



Indeed, i have the Geforce2 MX agp and pci version that both do not have a heatsink and probably never had one. They get warm but not hot. These are at normal clockspeeds and no crippled cards.
asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1
meljor
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1735
Joined: 2014-4-30 @ 19:43
Location: Netherlands

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby ElDavo » 2017-2-26 @ 20:18

So I am moving onto a socket 370 motherboard so i can get a 800mhz P3 which will hopefully push my graphics cards a bit harder.

Just won a socket 370 motherboard with a 733mhz Celeron(shudder) and 256mb of ram. Also a little Coolermaster cooler on the cpu :D for £10

Currently the Computer is having trouble running dungeon keeper 2 and railroad tycoon 2, the recommended requirements are way below a p3 500mhz so I wonder if my CPU is under-performing?
It does run a little hot.
Beige Avenger: Windows 98 P3 600MHZ Voodoo 3 3000 128MB SDR
Untitled: Windows XP E8200 3.2GHZ Nvidia Geforce 9800 GTX+ 4GB DDR2
Charlene Charlene Meredith Workgroup: Windows 10 i5 6600k 4.8ghz GTX1070 16GB DDR4
User avatar
ElDavo
Newbie
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 2015-12-14 @ 11:38
Location: England

Re: 1999 PC and the mystery of the Geforce 2 MX

Postby kanecvr » 2017-3-05 @ 13:02

ElDavo wrote:I just find it strange that I can't play Dungeon Keeper 2 on a high end contemporary machine, maybe it's just that DK2 is a pig to run? I know that it doesn't run sim city 3000 very well either but I think that was a well known game for needing a really beefy processor at the time.

perhaps the Processor is the 'bottleneck' as far as DK is concerned as 3 different graphics cards produce very similar results and changing the resolution doesn't make much difference either...

I'll try and run them on my windows XP machine instead currently it's not liking DK2 at all but Im guessing there will be a patch somewhere that can fix it, and i'll look into that when I've got more time.


DKII is a little of a resource hog, yes. Minimum requirements (not official ones) for running the game comfortably @ 640x480 w/o terrible framedrops and slowdowns is a 450MHz K6-II + Riva TNT2 - but it will still get when lots of creatures are on screen.

If you want 1600x1200 and max details, you need a socket A or 478 machine. My Tualatin + Geforce 4 Ti 4600 manages about 15-65 fps at that resolution, but framerate dips very quickly in heavy action or when you have a big dungeon with lots of creatures and gets quite tiresome. I run the game on a 3200+ / FX 5900 Ultra and it's smooth as butter. Of course a 2500+ athlon XP + a geforce 4 Ti4200 will also do very well at 1600x1200 with everything cranked up, so that's what I'd recommend for maximum enjoyment... a machine much newer then the game. Video card wise a 128bit geforce 4 MX440 should suffice, since the big drops in framerate seem to be CPU related.

Same goes for Homeworld. Minimul system requirements state a Pentium MM and 32MB of ram, but in reality you need a fast pentium III + a Geforce 4 MX to get good performance out of the game when things get intensive. If you want 1600x1200 / 32bit / everthing on max + a little AA, a Ti4200 + fast socket A or 478 machine is required for butter-smooth gameplay. If you don't care for AA a 128bit GF4 MX440 will work just as well.
User avatar
kanecvr
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1957
Joined: 2015-4-22 @ 20:30
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Previous

Return to Video

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests