Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Discussion about old graphics cards, monitors and video related things.

Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby Tetrium » 2017-3-10 @ 16:16

meljor wrote:
Tetrium wrote:Thanks everyone for explaining :)

I thought Voodoo 1 might be a bit too slow for newer games like Unreal. I was already aware that not all games that work on Voodoo 1 will work on Voodoo 2 or later (and that some will work after doing some fiddling around).



Btw Meljor, where would you put cards like Banshee and Velocity? :P


Eh....On my shelf with the rest? :lol: :cool:

Just kidding. Banshee is a great card as well but i never use one. It is just a higher clocked v2 that is slower when it comes to multi texturing with ofcourse it's own 2d. The velocity is basicly a v3 2000 for lower resolutions so should be fine for a lot of games as well.

Do you happen to know of a list of games that don't use multi texturing? I've got a Banshee laying around (I could never find them as easily as Voodoo 3 back in the day) and also plenty of games. Perhaps one of my old favorite games will like my Banshee :)

I do know about the Velocity and I also got one of those laying around and despite the registry trick to enable the second TMU it's mostly the more limiting RAM that kinda kept me from ever using it.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby Taylor7108 » 2017-3-10 @ 17:01

Not to hijack this thread, but I was wondering the same about my W98 build. I am running a GeForce2 MX440 (64MB) and was debating between getting a Voodoo2 12MB card to run parallel, or whether my GF2 could effectively run a Glide wrapper. Thoughts? I know that the GF2 is a Directx 8 card, but I know it supports DX9 applications.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby Tetrium » 2017-3-10 @ 18:08

Taylor7108 wrote:Not to hijack this thread, but I was wondering the same about my W98 build. I am running a GeForce2 MX440 (64MB) and was debating between getting a Voodoo2 12MB card to run parallel, or whether my GF2 could effectively run a Glide wrapper. Thoughts? I know that the GF2 is a Directx 8 card, but I know it supports DX9 applications.

If you run a Voodoo 2 alongside your GF2MX or GF2 (remember that these 2 cards are NOT the exact same thing) then it doesn't really matter. 3DFX is mostly for using glide. When it comes to non-glide stuff, your choice of cards will suddenly be much more expanded.

I don't know if GF2MX or GF2 is good enough for a wrapper, perhaps ask in one of the emulation forums? They'll probably know.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby KT7AGuy » 2017-3-10 @ 22:16

Taylor7108,

I've used DGVoodoo and Zeckensack with a GF4 Ti4200, but never anything older.

elod wrote:I'm actually thinking about buying a V1 with Miro branding (identical design to the Canopus) just because it's odder than all the other V1 cards. No pass through cable but we can live without.


How? I was under the impression that you need the cable to do anything. Not only that, but I know of no third-party alternatives to the proprietary Miro/Canopus pass-thru cables.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby elod » 2017-3-11 @ 05:57

How? I was under the impression that you need the cable to do anything. Not only that, but I know of no third-party alternatives to the proprietary Miro/Canopus pass-thru cables.


It has a proper VGA output to the monitor. Only the pass through is proprietary. A KVM switch or a monitor with 2 inputs is all you need.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby KT7AGuy » 2017-3-11 @ 06:04

OK, I misunderstood. I'm actually planning on doing exactly that with one of my Voodoo 2 PCs.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby meljor » 2017-3-11 @ 08:42

@Tetrium: The biggest problem at the time was quake2 or games on that engine. Probably a lot of the later games started using multitexturing as well.

But that makes it only in those titles slower as a v2 or sometimes on par. But it is still a nice card and still faster as a rush or voodoo1 with all the glide benefits.

No reason for not using it but yeah, when you have other choices it is easier to grab v2 sli or v3 i guess.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby Tetrium » 2017-3-11 @ 18:22

meljor wrote:@Tetrium: The biggest problem at the time was quake2 or games on that engine. Probably a lot of the later games started using multitexturing as well.

But that makes it only in those titles slower as a v2 or sometimes on par. But it is still a nice card and still faster as a rush or voodoo1 with all the glide benefits.

No reason for not using it but yeah, when you have other choices it is easier to grab v2 sli or v3 i guess.

True, but I'd still like to actually try my Banshee out and this in itself could be viewed as a good reason :D. I got several Voodoo 3's in several systems which I used to good satisfaction and I like trying out new things :)

Thanks for your answers and explanations, it's appreciated :)
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby Richo » 2017-3-13 @ 09:43

Tetrium wrote:
meljor wrote:@Tetrium: The biggest problem at the time was quake2 or games on that engine. Probably a lot of the later games started using multitexturing as well.

But that makes it only in those titles slower as a v2 or sometimes on par. But it is still a nice card and still faster as a rush or voodoo1 with all the glide benefits.

No reason for not using it but yeah, when you have other choices it is easier to grab v2 sli or v3 i guess.

True, but I'd still like to actually try my Banshee out and this in itself could be viewed as a good reason :D. I got several Voodoo 3's in several systems which I used to good satisfaction and I like trying out new things :)

Thanks for your answers and explanations, it's appreciated :)

How about a making a late socket 7 build with the banshee? Fic and epox have the first agp s7 boards combine that with a cyrix 6x86 and some edo ram. Add a nice awe 32 or 64 in a old at case.
After I finish up my current projects I might start scrapin those parts together.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby Tetrium » 2017-3-13 @ 16:23

Richo wrote:
Tetrium wrote:
meljor wrote:@Tetrium: The biggest problem at the time was quake2 or games on that engine. Probably a lot of the later games started using multitexturing as well.

But that makes it only in those titles slower as a v2 or sometimes on par. But it is still a nice card and still faster as a rush or voodoo1 with all the glide benefits.

No reason for not using it but yeah, when you have other choices it is easier to grab v2 sli or v3 i guess.

True, but I'd still like to actually try my Banshee out and this in itself could be viewed as a good reason :D. I got several Voodoo 3's in several systems which I used to good satisfaction and I like trying out new things :)

Thanks for your answers and explanations, it's appreciated :)

How about a making a late socket 7 build with the banshee? Fic and epox have the first agp s7 boards combine that with a cyrix 6x86 and some edo ram. Add a nice awe 32 or 64 in a old at case.
After I finish up my current projects I might start scrapin those parts together.

This is a good idea and it would suit a s7 rig well. But my Banshee is AGP (I don't have a PCI one) and I don't think I have a non-ss7 board (so all my s7 AGP boards are ss7 (100MHz FSB) instead of being maxed at 66MHz FSB or slightly higher with an overclock) and I'd rather not do a new purchase if I can mix and match with what I already have.
My Velocity also is AGP (I really want to like this card lol). But I had been contemplating on using a Pentium MMX @ 250MHz or even Cyrix MII (at 300MHz or very maybe 350MHz if these 4x66 2.2v silver-topped chips will run at this frequency (I suspect Feipoa would be the right person to tell me if this idea is realistic or not ;) :P)) along with AGP Banshee.

I do have V3 (both PCI and AGP) and V2 but I already build systems around both of these.

Thanks for your cooperative thinking :)
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby Richo » 2017-3-13 @ 17:19

Tetrium wrote:This is a good idea and it would suit a s7 rig well. But my Banshee is AGP (I don't have a PCI one) and I don't think I have a non-ss7 board (so all my s7 AGP boards are ss7 (100MHz FSB) instead of being maxed at 66MHz FSB or slightly higher with an overclock) and I'd rather not do a new purchase if I can mix and match with what I already have.
My Velocity also is AGP (I really want to like this card lol). But I had been contemplating on using a Pentium MMX @ 250MHz or even Cyrix MII (at 300MHz or very maybe 350MHz if these 4x66 2.2v silver-topped chips will run at this frequency (I suspect Feipoa would be the right person to tell me if this idea is realistic or not ;) :P)) along with AGP Banshee.

I do have V3 (both PCI and AGP) and V2 but I already build systems around both of these.

Thanks for your cooperative thinking :)


cyrix runs at 83 Mhz FSB and I believe both the epox ep-58mvp3c-m and A few FIC boards support this FSB, dunno about other boards who support this FSB next to the epox and fic board
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby Tetrium » 2017-3-13 @ 18:23

Richo wrote:
Tetrium wrote:This is a good idea and it would suit a s7 rig well. But my Banshee is AGP (I don't have a PCI one) and I don't think I have a non-ss7 board (so all my s7 AGP boards are ss7 (100MHz FSB) instead of being maxed at 66MHz FSB or slightly higher with an overclock) and I'd rather not do a new purchase if I can mix and match with what I already have.
My Velocity also is AGP (I really want to like this card lol). But I had been contemplating on using a Pentium MMX @ 250MHz or even Cyrix MII (at 300MHz or very maybe 350MHz if these 4x66 2.2v silver-topped chips will run at this frequency (I suspect Feipoa would be the right person to tell me if this idea is realistic or not ;) :P)) along with AGP Banshee.

I do have V3 (both PCI and AGP) and V2 but I already build systems around both of these.

Thanks for your cooperative thinking :)


cyrix runs at 83 Mhz FSB and I believe both the epox ep-58mvp3c-m and A few FIC boards support this FSB, dunno about other boards who support this FSB next to the epox and fic board

Isn't it much easier to simply run the 2.2v Cyrix's at 100MHz FSB, especially since I already have boards that support this FSB and the 2.2v Cyrix chips?
I have run a SiS board at 75MHz FSB (with decoupled 66MHz memory bus iirc) but this was using a K6-2 but this board doesn't have AGP and I'd rather run them at standard frequencies as this likely presents less problems and has better performance compared to lower FSBs.

My thought is that since I already have 100MHz available and this typically offers better performance (though less than, say, K6-III+ would deliver), why not go for that? :)

And my apologies for hijacking this thread :sweatdrop:
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby meljor » 2017-3-13 @ 20:51

There is no socket 7 with agp slot that isn't a ss7. 100mhz fsb and agp is what made it so superrrrr :lol:
And all these boards support the 83mhz fsb setting for the cyrix as far as i know.

And yes, the cyrix will run on 100mhz fsb, my black-top mII-300 runs nicely on 2,5x 100 (will not go higher).

In the same fashion i wanted to build a system for one of my voodoo rush cards some time ago and build it together with other less common/popular choices: SiS chipset (Asus sp97), Quantum big foot 5.25 harddisk, 3dfx voodoo rush and a cyrix PR200+. Together with a not so desirable OPTi isa sound card it was ready to go :cool:


The first Cyrix fell short as my p1-233mmx with voodoo1 felt MUCH smoother in old glide games, so i replaced it with the mII-300 (3x75mhz). It still didn't feel right and i gave up on the project as i would always prefer the mmx based system for these games.
The cyrix has the fpu of something like a p120 and you can see it in some games. But maybe a banshee is a much better choice and it will pick the cyrix up a bit? Certainly worth testing, and i also still need a system for a Banshee. I think most of that system is still in one piece so i can give it a shot pretty fast.

I also still need to build a system around a voodoo4, maybe i will go Athlon 1200mhz for that one (needs to sit between the two p3's in my sig).
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby Tetrium » 2017-3-13 @ 21:12

meljor wrote:There is no socket 7 with agp slot that isn't a ss7. 100mhz fsb and agp is what made it so superrrrr :lol:
And all these boards support the 83mhz fsb setting for the cyrix as far as i know.

And yes, the cyrix will run on 100mhz fsb, my black-top mII-300 runs nicely on 2,5x 100 (will not go higher).

In the same fashion i wanted to build a system for one of my voodoo rush cards some time ago and build it together with other less common/popular choices: SiS chipset (Asus sp97), Quantum big foot 5.25 harddisk, 3dfx voodoo rush and a cyrix PR200+. Together with a not so desirable OPTi isa sound card it was ready to go :cool:


The first Cyrix fell short as my p1-233mmx with voodoo1 felt MUCH smoother in old glide games, so i replaced it with the mII-300 (3x75mhz). It still didn't feel right and i gave up on the project as i would always prefer the mmx based system for these games.
The cyrix has the fpu of something like a p120 and you can see it in some games. But maybe a banshee is a much better choice and it will pick the cyrix up a bit? Certainly worth testing, and i also still need a system for a Banshee. I think most of that system is still in one piece so i can give it a shot pretty fast.

I also still need to build a system around a voodoo4, maybe i will go Athlon 1200mhz for that one (needs to sit between the two p3's in my sig).

The definition of Super Socket 7 was always vague to me (and I prefer to have my definitions accurate) because messing up accuracy due to sloppiness is what makes stupid mistakes exponentially more common), but my understanding was that it was about the 100MHz FSB. Not all ss7 boards feature a dedicated AGP port (mostly SiS and one late VIA chipset also I think) though I agree with you fully that AGP (even if its implementation was kinda lame compared to contemporary Intel boards) does make ss7 more super :)

What voltage is your blacktop MII? I only got one and it had like 4 pins missing (they fell off :dead: ) but my 2.2v chips are more useful in most cases anyway (I'm well stocked :cool: ).

If my understanding is correct, 3DFX did somewhat help alleviate poor 3D performance in s7/ss7 systems (but don't quote me on this, it's debatable).

I'm not sure how good MII is for gaming, but when it came to SuperPi it wasn't actually that far behind P1mmx and Cyrix is kinda cool :D
Phil has done some benchmarking using one or two Cyrix s7 chips recently.
If my understanding is correct, some games had patches which supposedly fixed some of the issues these games had with Cyrix chips but I never got around to actually read up about it. Swaaye may know more about this issue as he's the one that mentioned it to me years ago :P

I've build several sA Thunderbird machines (and I basically used only ASUS boards for these lol) and it was a fun project :)
Is your 1200 chip 100MHz FSB or 133MHz FSB? And which board are you planning to use? A7V133 was a very fun project and even though it was as troublesome as any old 486 can be, it was one heck of a fun ride when looking back at it :D
A7V (which is basically the A7V133 without 133MHz FSB support) was really very similar in everything except CPU support.

I think 1200MHz would make a good match for V4. I should still have a single 1200MHz Tualatin (non-S! :D) laying around which should handle that spec well enough.

But about Banshee, I'd probably match it with something of around 300MHz or so as I'd match anything faster with Voodoo 2 or perhaps a slower V3.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby meljor » 2017-3-13 @ 22:29

I don't know about SiS, i don't think they ever made an official 100fsb capable s7 chipset. You are right about Via, they made a mvp4 which had onboard video (oem only?) and no agp slot.
But before that there was the mvp3 and Ali Aladdin V and to me they are the only real ss7 chpsets which officially support 100mhz fsb and have an agp slot.

My black top is a 2.9v chip, stock setting 3.5x 66fsb.

3dfx certainly helps the cpu a bit, especially in glide there is a difference.

I never used Cyrix patches actually, so that might help with performance in some titles.

My 1200 Athlon is a 100fsb version, i also have the 1400 (non xp). It should really be an Amd because otherwise it comes too close to another Intel system that is already up and running.
Performance-wise it will still be close but at least the platform will be different now, maybe even the OS.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby F2bnp » 2017-3-13 @ 22:33

SiS made a SS7 chipset actually, the SiS 530.

No AGP slots on this one, much like the MVP4 and Aladdin 7, but it can apparently run at 133MHz FSB.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby feipoa » 2017-3-14 @ 10:12

Tetrium wrote:My Velocity also is AGP (I really want to like this card lol). But I had been contemplating on using a Pentium MMX @ 250MHz or even Cyrix MII (at 300MHz or very maybe 350MHz if these 4x66 2.2v silver-topped chips will run at this frequency (I suspect Feipoa would be the right person to tell me if this idea is realistic or not ;) :P)) along with AGP Banshee.

My silver topped Cyrix 6x86 MII 4x66 2.2V ran at 300 MHz. You could also try your luck at 333 MHz (83x4) if you have some chips to spare. You'll be the only one with a cased Cyrix MII at 333 MHz. At 350 MHz, I found that all my MII-400GP's would fail 2 out of 22 benchmark suites. At 333 MHz, a Cyrix MII runs Quake II a hair faster than a Pentium 250 MMX. I really like the idea of using a Voodoo card these Cyrix machines because it kinda makes up for Cyrix's weaker FPU.

I like to pair my Cyrixes with Voodoos. Cyrix MediaGX 266 MHz w/Banshee, Cyrix MII 300 MHz w/Voodoo3 AGP, Cyrix 5x86-133/4x w/Voodoo3 PCI, and IBM 5x86c-133/2x w/MatroxG200+Voodoo2.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby Tetrium » 2017-3-14 @ 12:09

feipoa wrote:
Tetrium wrote:My Velocity also is AGP (I really want to like this card lol). But I had been contemplating on using a Pentium MMX @ 250MHz or even Cyrix MII (at 300MHz or very maybe 350MHz if these 4x66 2.2v silver-topped chips will run at this frequency (I suspect Feipoa would be the right person to tell me if this idea is realistic or not ;) :P)) along with AGP Banshee.

My silver topped Cyrix 6x86 MII 4x66 2.2V ran at 300 MHz. You could also try your luck at 333 MHz (83x4) if you have some chips to spare. You'll be the only one with a cased Cyrix MII at 333 MHz. At 350 MHz, I found that all my MII-400GP's would fail 2 out of 22 benchmark suites. At 333 MHz, a Cyrix MII runs Quake II a hair faster than a Pentium 250 MMX. I really like the idea of using a Voodoo card these Cyrix machines because it kinda makes up for Cyrix's weaker FPU.

I like to pair my Cyrixes with Voodoos. Cyrix MediaGX 266 MHz w/Banshee, Cyrix MII 300 MHz w/Voodoo3 AGP, Cyrix 5x86-133/4x w/Voodoo3 PCI, and IBM 5x86c-133/2x w/MatroxG200+Voodoo2.

I was kinda hoping 350MHz would be possible, but I'll be satisfied with 300MHz and especially if I can use one of my silver topped ones. I got only 2 MII-400GPs (gold topped and different prints on each chip) and 6 silver topped MII-333GPs (4x66 and all from the same lot I presume) and the 400GP ran 300MHz without any issues. I think I'll be aiming for 300MHz (preferably 3x100). I'm kinda glad you mentioned your silver topped one can also run at 300MHz, so I don't have to use one of my gold-topped ones for that :)

Did you run your 333GP at 4x75 or at 3x100?

My idea is exactly as you mentioned, having these Cyrix chips compensate for their poorer FPU performance by higher frequencies and matching them with Voodoo :)
It seems Banshee would fit in pretty well for this, but wouldn't a V3 be a bit overpowered for a chip that's comparable with Pentium MMX 233MHz FPU performance? I'd actually like to use one of my earlier 3DFX cards for these, if only because I already have several V3 systems running.

Nice that you have a MediaGX running, I couldn't get mine to POST and put it back onto the pile of stuff-I'll-check-out-again-once-I-get-around-to-it-but-this-never-happens lol
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby feipoa » 2017-3-14 @ 13:10

There is a printable PDF document as part of the Ultimate 686 Benchmark Comparison which notes all the speed configurations I ran, although, I did not specifically say which CPU I ran at which speed configurations. However, I do specifically recall running the silver topped MII-333 at 3x100 and 3.5x100. I was really determined to find a stable 350 MHz MII, but did not. If you view page 6, you can see how configurations of a Cyrix MII fares at 3x100, 83x4 (SS7) and vs. 83x4 (S7). The regular socket 7 MII-333 was a bit faster than the Super7 MII at 333 MHz. Perhaps the SS7 is reducing the PCI bus substantially, while the S7 board is running it out of spec. It is pretty neat to see the MII 333 MHz right up there with a PII-233 in Quake2. On the other hand though, it is really only as good as a K6-2-350 (looking at the Quake 1 results now). What kinda stinks is that there are faster CPUs (AMD) for the same platform. You can still gain comfort in knowing that you're running the fastest Cyrix.

Yes, there is no doubt that a Voodoo3 is overkill for an MII at 300 MHz. But, if you want an all-in-one 2D+3D with nice display quality and want glide, it is the way to go. I give only my best to the Cyrixes; they need all the help they can get.

I really wanted a MediaGX going at 300 MHz, and went the extra step to find a rare PGA GX1-300 chip, but I think the issue may lie in the motherboard for speeds above 266 MHz.
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Re: Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

Postby Scraphoarder » 2017-3-16 @ 06:32

That nice russian guy selling the V2 STBs seems to have an endless supply. Almost gone must be an relative term with now over 10 in stock and price $48. I just have another two shipped from him and have bought two earlier, but i now consider im done buying V2s forever. The strenghten USD value and the low NOK value gets everything more expensive theese days.
Im not consider me a collector, but want the good stuff i couldnt afford the they were new. Until i get a proper room or lab i sadly cant do many builds with my parts :dead:
My advice is to get what you want now because prices wont go down to earlier levels. Better hurt a little now than suffer later when things are almost impossible to find or prices are ridcolous.
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