VOGONS


First post, by vvbee

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Fujitsu tnt2 m64 16 mb (125/140 mhz or so) vs. msi geforce4 ti4200 8x 64 mb. Tested in an asrock am2nf3-vsta, amd athlon x2 5050e, 384 mb ddr2, ssd, audigy 2, windows 98 se. The tnt2 used the 30.82 dets, the gf4 the 31.40. Captured through vga with a visionrgb-pro2.

All in-game detail settings maxed. All games have footage at 640 x 480 16-bit, some at 1024 x 768 32-bit. Pause the video if there's too much information for you to take in otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNFDYFBNd-4
Colin McRae Rally /1998
Mobil 1 Rally Championship /1999
Soulbringer /2000
Rally Trophy /2001
Gothic 2: Night of the Raven /2003

The tnt2 has softer texturing and more aggressive mipmapping. Textures are excessively blurry in rally trophy, but the gf4 just about fails to mipmap at all in rally championship. Rather blurry than shimmery, so I prefer the tnt2 in most of these cases. The retro dithering looks nicer too. In rally championship, the gf4 is unstable. As did the geforce2 I tested earlier, the gf4 gets some possibly paletted texture colors wrong in soulbringer, and the text is corrupted. The latter might or might not be fixed by tweaking a texel offset setting, but this is what you get from the box. Soulbringer's menus are oddly sluggish on the gf4, and there's curious jerkiness in camera movement in-game. Colin mcrae rally is fps-limited, but the text and menus are to an extend corrupted on both cards; less so on the tnt2.

The tnt2 fully chokes in gothic 2 unless the texture detail slider is moved back a few steps. None of the games are well playable at 32-bit 1024 x 768 and max details on the tnt2, not surprising. The gf4 is always faster, usually by a lot. But 200+ fps isn't so useful over 50, and the tnt2 stays in the green at 640 x 480 16-bit in most of the games. I don't know why someone would play retro games in hd, but 640 x 480 also affords the more interesting selection of hardware here.

Rivatuner identifies the tnt2 as a vanta, nvidia's own control panel as a regular m64. Rivatuner gives the default core clock as 105 or so, nvidia's as 125. The core doesn't overclock by much, I think to about 135 at most, so whether it's a vanta is up for debate, I'm not removing the heatsink. The memory is stable up to 170, rated for 166.

Reply 1 of 5, by havli

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Nice work!

It is great to see some one else is also interested in Rally Championship. 😀 I like this game very much and therefore I have spent quite some time to get it running as good as possible. Did you turn on Anisotropic filtering on GF4? It is a must have to get decent picture. The truth is GF4 takes significant performance hit with AF enabled but at 1024x768 it still should be fine. I used Ti 4600 and got Rally running at ~50 fps with 2xAA, 4xAF and 1600x1200 resolution. Also I had no problems with stability. The PC was:

P4 2.66 GHz
Abit TH7II (i850)
512 MB RDRAM
GF4 Ti 4600 (FW 44.03)
Win98 SE (no SP or updates)

In the future I'm planning to build even better PC mostly for this game. As 50 fps is not enough for me 🤣 I wil use FX 5900 or maybe GF6800 and also faster CPU... either overclocked Xeon Gallatin or Opteron. With GeForce FX/6 I must use more recent drivers and unfortunately they require more CPU power for the same fps. And Rally is quite a lot CPU limited (at least on Pentium 4).

HW museum.cz - my collection of PC hardware

Reply 2 of 5, by vvbee

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I kept all the driver settings default. Even so, you'd expect some sort of mipmapping to be enabled by default, even if low quality i.e. blurry. In this case, mipmapping seems to have failed to work entirely and in this game in particular. It's like how need for speed 5 fails in this way with fast cpus, yet here the tnt 2 did better even with this particular cpu. Right now I easily have the game running at 60 fps with a 1.1 ghz cpu and a matrox g400, just at 640 x 480 16-bit. The benefits of enjoying low res over high res. The game used to wreck my 300 mhz voodoo 3 machine when it was new though.

The newer nvidia drivers are kinda poor for general compatibility with older games. The 31.40 are the newest I've seen that don't break things so bad.

Reply 3 of 5, by havli

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It is matter of preference I guess. For me playing without AF (on GPU that supports it) and at 640x480 is simply not possible. The game looks too ugly, which makes it unplayable. 🤣 This reminds me the times when I used to play Carmageddon 2 on ATi Rage Pro... it was running very slow (obviously I didn't mesure the fps back then), but it must have been something like 5 fps, maybe less. At the time I considered it good gameplay.... until I got GeForce4 PC. 😀 And now I have 144Hz 1440p screen for my main PC, it is very easy to get used to better gaming conditions. So because of that even my retro machines must get at least reasonably close to this level of comfort. I think 20'' IPS 1600x1200 @ 60 Hz is close enough. 😈

Many people say that new FW are bad for some games. Luckily for me those few games I play run well on most drivers.

HW museum.cz - my collection of PC hardware

Reply 4 of 5, by swaaye

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Really it just goes to show how difficult maintaining good driver support for all games across Direct3D/OpenGL is and why it is such a major investment for the GPU companies. And why Jen Hsun Huang says NVidia is a software company.

Naturally you are usually best off using contemporaneous hardware/drivers with your games of choice. Or load up DGVoodoo2 and use virtual hardware that is designed for old games and their quirks. It wouldn't be hard to build something with a slower CPU to use with that too.

Reply 5 of 5, by vvbee

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Low-res gaming is like impressionism in art, it's not about what you see but what you think you see, which often gives you a deeper experience. Besides, the more pixels you want on screen, the more years you'll have to wait to get the actual impressive 3d graphics from photorealistic offline rendering over in your games.