I have never heard of "1998s revision of Trio3D Virge". Would you please elaborate on that, or point me to a reliable source?
I would avoid the first card, which uses 60ns EDO RAM, which is limited at 66MHz 2-cycle operation. Can't read the markings on the second card's video RAM.

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poor performance model

They all are poor performance models for 3d

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Hi, there's a web page with lot's of information about the ViRGEs.
http://vintage3d.org/virge.php

If an S3 Trio32/64 is good enough for you, you could also consider a ViRGE 325.
It has the same 2D core as Trio64V+, but is also most compatible with S3D games in DOS.
So if anything fails, you still have a decent 2D card with good VBE compatibility.

The only downside of a first-gen Virge is the lower standard clock frequency (~50MHz, can be overclocked).
That's because, sometimes, these cards got equipped or upgraded with slow RAM chips (60 or 70ns).

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ElectroMan wrote:

Second paragraph in Variants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_ViRGE […]
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lazibayer wrote:

I have never heard of "1998s revision of Trio3D Virge". Would you please elaborate on that, or point me to a reliable source?

Second paragraph in Variants:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_ViRGE

The ViRGE was ultimately replaced by the Savage 3D in S3's top-end graphics segment in 1998. However, at least one derivative (Trio3D) of the ViRGE remained in production even after the discontinuation of the Savage 3D.

Obviously not trying to be an authority on the subject, just what I understood from wiki.

lazibayer wrote:

I would avoid the first card, which uses 60ns EDO RAM, which is limited at 66MHz 2-cycle operation. Can't read the markings on the second card's video RAM.

That is very sad. It looked like the best option that's available locally. Would you say I'm better off with this S3 Trio64 2Mb until I can order something nicer?

IMG_20171011_000119.jpg

Do you hold grudge with Virge in general, or just this (#1) poor performance model?

Yes, the image of the second card is unfortunately low-res. Could ask for more photos if you think it might be a contender.

My understanding to Wiki's text is....
1, Trio3D is a derivative of Virge;
2, Trio3D was still produced after the discontinuation of the Savage 3D.

From my prospective Virges are quite abundant and easy to get, so why wouldn't I pick one with faster memory? But if it's not the same case for you, a Virge is still better than a Trio64.

Jo22 wrote:

Hi, there's a web page with lot's of information about the ViRGEs. http://vintage3d.org/virge.php […]
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Hi, there's a web page with lot's of information about the ViRGEs.
http://vintage3d.org/virge.php

If an S3 Trio32/64 is good enough for you, you could also consider a ViRGE 325.
It has the same 2D core as Trio64V+, but is also most compatible with S3D games in DOS.
So if anything fails, you still have a decent 2D card with good VBE compatibility.

The only downside of a first-gen Virge is the lower standard clock frequency (~50MHz, can be overclocked).
That's because, sometimes, these cards got equipped or upgraded with slow RAM chips (60 or 70ns).

Points taken from the lesson...
1, Virges are quite overclockable;
2, Virges can benefit from overclock;
3, Don't let the slow RAMs hold it back!

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Oh wow, the 1st cheapo Virge uses a legitimate 32pin 1Mbit UV-EPROM (a little too costly for a such quality card), but still uses SOJ40 memory sockets for upgrade, meaning it was manufactured in the time when EDO DRAM memory was still expensive or it was ment to be a "low end" card, 2nd one does not use any sockets, indicating some "higher end" production and most likely will use a 35ns memory (72MHz). Video quality won't differ on both (mediocre).

If i were you, id go for a gx2 or gx. for me in 2d the virge cards are mostly the same. The gx and gx2 will be faster in 3d

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ElectroMan wrote:

Would you say that a DX card with 2 times faster memory (35ns) will outperform or at least be equal to GX one (60ns)? The only p […]
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Would you say that a DX card with 2 times faster memory (35ns) will outperform or at least be equal to GX one (60ns)? The only poor GX available here looks like crap and I could easily grab this DX (#2) tomorrow for just $6 while picking some other goodies.

A little gamble on my part, but according to SSTV2 it's likely to be a quicker 72MHz version and it looks very clean.

I'll probably buy Matrox Millennium or/and some top of the line Virge to go with Voodoo anyway in the future, this is just a replacement for Trio64.

Btw noticed some people on eBay selling quite regular used DXs for 50 bucks a piece. Is it norm?

I doubt that card is set to 72MHz because S3 is quite conservative in setting Virges' clocks. And because you are not planning to overclock, what you can really benefit from a 35ns memory is 1-cycle memory operation. But I haven't done any face-off between Virges with 1- and 2-cycle memory settings and I am not sure if that particular card is set to 1-cycle mode.

Both cards are DX, #2 just uses faster memory and probably is clocked higher.

ElectroMan wrote:

Btw noticed some people on eBay selling quite regular used DXs for 50 bucks a piece. Is it norm?
Re: Humour Thread: Outrageously priced retro gear for sale online

It is a norm for ignorant people who have no interest or idea about old hardware they sell, 50 bucks would be a norm for Voodoo cards, but not for cheapest quality 3D decelerators... I don't know when that time will come when Virges would actually go for 50 bucks or more, not soon, that's for sure.

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I have this exact card in my 486 right now. You will probably find that the display black levels are a bit too bright, but I managed to bodge up a
new 1mbit bios that fixes this issue. For some weird reason the various Virge DX cards out there have either 32k (27c256), 64k (27c512), or 128k (27c010) bios chips, but the
data is 32k in all of them as far as I can tell.
If You have an eprom programmer and uv eraser then this is easy to fix, otherwise not so easy. Mine also has the crappy 60ns ram, but I doubt it affects performance much,
maybe on a pentium, but not on a 486.

I also just tested my other Virge DX that has 35ns ram, the difference in speedsys is 22000 vs 15000 for the VESA speed.

ElectroMan wrote:

I'll probably buy Matrox Millennium or/and some top of the line Virge to go with Voodoo anyway in the future, this is just a replacement for Trio64.

That's completely pointless then, as the ViRGE is Trio64 2d core with 3d features added that you don't plan to use. Keep the Trio64.

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From what I understand the Virge GX and DX are basically the same chip (pin compatible?). The only difference I am aware of is that the GX model can support SGRAM (but also works with EDO DRAM). One of the most common GX based cards is the STB Nitro 3D, but uses EDO DRAM. Strangely, it is said to be faster than many of the SGRAM based cards because it is supposedly clocked much higher. There is a website out there that explores this in detail, but my understanding is that performance varies quite a bit between virge cards, even if they use the same chips. I went with an STB based on the recommendation I repeated here, and because it's supposed to have very crisp and colourful output quality compared to the average virge.

In short, it's possible for a fast DX card to be faster than a slow GX card.