VOGONS


First post, by Galacnor

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Hello again!

I had such great help with the last problem that I brought to you guys that I have another problem to share that I hope you can help me fix.

My oldest PC is currently a custom build that I inherited from my late grandfather, he was, to speak frankly, a genius and skilled mechanical engineer. Born in 1930, one of his final fascinations was the world of computers, and there's evidence of him tinkering on them from the mid 1980s onwards.

He built this system sometime in the early 90s, and it seems to have ran until at least around 2000. When I got it after he passed it was already non functional, it appeared to me at first that the video card might be bad, so I bought a drop in replacement for the one already inside the case. However, with this new card, the computer still doesn't display a picture.

When I got the system, I noticed that it was attached to some very old IBM monitor of some kind, probably EGA. The monitor was pretty beat up, so I tossed it before shipping the computer home, now all I have at home are VGA monitors, and I wonder if the card is outputting to the EGA or Svideo looking connector in the middle. Any ideas?

I've moved the card around inside the case to different ISA slots, still to no avail. The barrel cell backup battery was leaking and caused some minimal surface corrosion on the board, and I worry that the board might be damaged, however, the computer does pass post without beep code errors when the card is installed, when it's pulled out it gives the display card not found (1 long, 8 short beeps), so I'm fairly confident that the board is working correctly.

The motherboard seems to be Generic, but is marked "M326 V 5.2" and has chips from Toshiba (Chip 2 - TC6154HS) and SARC (RC4019A4 9324). I've got a genuine AMD AM386DX-40 in the processor slot and no math coprocessor. There is alot more to the computer, but I'm trying to get a display first before I install the other I/O cards.

Does anyone have documentation for the VGA wonder+ cards (mines the 1mb version with the 4th revision ati chip)? And is there anyone who knows what to do next?

Thanks
Alex.

Reply 1 of 4, by Jo22

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Hello Alex,

I've found an entry for the ATi VGA Wonder+ at the ATi Wonder Series Database:
http://sites.google.com/site/atiwonderseriesdatabase/

And a manual for the original VGA Wonder card.
Manual

The S-Video looking connector was for a Bus-Mouse.

From what I read at http://ancientelectronics.wordpress.com/tag/ati-vga-wonder/ ,
"the card also could auto detect the type of monitor connected rather then requiring
the use of dip switches to tell the card what it’s displaying to."

While that text was written with the VGA Wonder XL24 in mind,
maybe it is true for your model, too.

If so, a contemporary VGA tube monitor would good for testing.
One from the 80s or early 90s, which doesn't has a DDC feature yet.

"DDC changed the purpose of the ID pins to incorporate a serial link interface.
However, this change is not fully backwards-compatible and video cards using the ID pin scheme
may have problems detecting the monitor type if a DDC-capable monitor is connected,
such as erroneously identifying a color monitor as a monochrome one."

If you can't get another monitor for testing, I guess you could make a little adapter.
One that passes through RGB,H-SYNC,V-SYNC.GND. Grounding that pin for detection of a colour-monitor (ID0)
properly may also helps (never done myself. Be careful. Maybe resistor required, not sure).
http://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/comp … deo/vga-15-pin/

Sorry, that's all I can help, I'm afraid. 🙁

PS: My old 286 once had a VGA Wonder, too, but this was before I
had monitors with on-screen displays (OSD), yet alone LCDs.
Back then, I had a very basic analogue IBM PS/2 monitor.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 2 of 4, by blurks

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There's also a VGA Wonder XL manual available: http://ibm-pc.org/manuals/other/ati/vgawonder/wonderv2.pdf
These two cards share more similarities than the VGA Wonder and the VGA Wonder+, although they sound so similar.
Additionally, there's a user who owns a VGA Wonder+ in box and manual. He shared a photo in the "Bought these (retro) hardware today" thread a while ago. Around page 250-350 I believe. Maybe its worth to ask him/her for some information.
Good luck

Reply 3 of 4, by Anonymous Coward

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I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure all VGA Wonder + cards have either 256k or 512k DRAM. If your card has 1MB, then I am pretty sure it's a different model. Either a VGA1024 (OEM) or a VGA Wonder XL.

BTW, these cards autodetect the display type. If you plug a monitor into the VGA port, it will automatically find your display.

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 4 of 4, by Galacnor

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Good news for everyone!

After a long hiatus caused by my inability to find an acceptable replacement motherboard for my system, I am back and happy to announce that the problem was not with either of the video cards, but with the motherboard. It seems that the battery corrosion on the original motherboard was more damaging that I once imagined, and there was nothing I could do for the original motherboard. I have switched my processor and other components into another motherboard from the same family of motherboards, and just like that, its running perfectly fine!

Jo22 wrote:
Hello Alex, […]
Show full quote

Hello Alex,

I've found an entry for the ATi VGA Wonder+ at the ATi Wonder Series Database:
http://sites.google.com/site/atiwonderseriesdatabase/

And a manual for the original VGA Wonder card.
Manual

The S-Video looking connector was for a Bus-Mouse.

From what I read at http://ancientelectronics.wordpress.com/tag/ati-vga-wonder/ ,
"the card also could auto detect the type of monitor connected rather then requiring
the use of dip switches to tell the card what it’s displaying to."

While that text was written with the VGA Wonder XL24 in mind,
maybe it is true for your model, too.

If so, a contemporary VGA tube monitor would good for testing.
One from the 80s or early 90s, which doesn't has a DDC feature yet.

"DDC changed the purpose of the ID pins to incorporate a serial link interface.
However, this change is not fully backwards-compatible and video cards using the ID pin scheme
may have problems detecting the monitor type if a DDC-capable monitor is connected,
such as erroneously identifying a color monitor as a monochrome one."

If you can't get another monitor for testing, I guess you could make a little adapter.
One that passes through RGB,H-SYNC,V-SYNC.GND. Grounding that pin for detection of a colour-monitor (ID0)
properly may also helps (never done myself. Be careful. Maybe resistor required, not sure).
http://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/comp … deo/vga-15-pin/

Sorry, that's all I can help, I'm afraid. 🙁

PS: My old 286 once had a VGA Wonder, too, but this was before I
had monitors with on-screen displays (OSD), yet alone LCDs.
Back then, I had a very basic analogue IBM PS/2 monitor.

Thank you for the link to the manual and short lesson on the BUS mouse. I was born in 1997 and am too young to have ever known such a technology, it is alien!

You are correct, the card seems to auto detect display type! My current monitor (and my favorite to date) is a trash find, MAG DJ707, not anything special, but a nice usable monitor that makes almost all my games look good.

blurks wrote:
There's also a VGA Wonder XL manual available: http://ibm-pc.org/manuals/other/ati/vgawonder/wonderv2.pdf These two cards share […]
Show full quote

There's also a VGA Wonder XL manual available: http://ibm-pc.org/manuals/other/ati/vgawonder/wonderv2.pdf
These two cards share more similarities than the VGA Wonder and the VGA Wonder+, although they sound so similar.
Additionally, there's a user who owns a VGA Wonder+ in box and manual. He shared a photo in the "Bought these (retro) hardware today" thread a while ago. Around page 250-350 I believe. Maybe its worth to ask him/her for some information.
Good luck

Thank you for the manual link. I will save this for future reference.

Anonymous Coward wrote:

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure all VGA Wonder + cards have either 256k or 512k DRAM. If your card has 1MB, then I am pretty sure it's a different model. Either a VGA1024 (OEM) or a VGA Wonder XL.

BTW, these cards autodetect the display type. If you plug a monitor into the VGA port, it will automatically find your display.

I think you are correct and it is a 512K card. It also autodetects, you are right!