Here they are, Alliance aT3D 4MB PCI, Win98, P-MMX 233. Frame rate is really low here as can be seen. The bad horizontal lines are for the background only not the character moving around.

386SX wrote on 2024-03-24, 19:49:

Here they are, Alliance aT3D 4MB PCI, Win98, P-MMX 233. Frame rate is really low here as can be seen. The bad horizontal lines are for the background only not the main character moving around.

While the external config shows paletted texture support, the in-game menu is not rendering correctly. This means that either paletted texture support is present, but broken (may depend on driver version). Or that the driver deliberately fakes support to bypass the check in games like FF7 and FF8.

Without seeing this card actually render the FF8 in-game menu correctly, we can't really consider it as having proper paletted texture support.

I have heard about these Alliance chips before. This is an impressive amount of graphical error. How does it look with Incoming?

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-24, 20:01:

386SX wrote on 2024-03-24, 19:49:

Here they are, Alliance aT3D 4MB PCI, Win98, P-MMX 233. Frame rate is really low here as can be seen. The bad horizontal lines are for the background only not the main character moving around.

While the external config shows paletted texture support, the in-game menu is not rendering correctly. This means that either paletted texture support is present, but broken (may depend on driver version). Or that the driver deliberately fakes support to bypass the check in games like FF7 and FF8.

Without seeing this card actually render the FF8 in-game menu correctly, we can't really consider it as having proper paletted texture support.

Of course, this card has so many rendering problems it could be both way like supporting it but not entirely or not supporting at all.

Do these Alliance chips render any 3D correctly? Maybe DirectX 3-era games?

Kahenraz wrote on 2024-03-24, 20:02:

I have heard about these Alliance chips before. This is an impressive amount of graphical error. How does it look with Incoming?

There's a reason it's usually known as one of the worst accelerator; it can't render most period correct games correctly and not even close to any acceptable level. But we were discussing about the possibility it could be like other solutions just a whole driver problem (it has a very basic driver package) or hardware one or maybe both. But I wonder that with a driver support like the Rage II received much later, it'd have done much better.

Kahenraz wrote on 2024-03-24, 20:07:

Do these Alliance chips render any 3D correctly? Maybe DirectX 3-era games?

I've seen only very few very old Direct3D game rendering "ok" but most will have problems and some so much the player can't even understand the geometry of the scene. But considering the 1996/97 alternative for the lowest end sector there were similar situations. But definetely it has more sense as the 2D chip that has been sold for the Voodoo Rush cards and probably oriented to that since the beginning.

Rage Pro cards @ Driver 1999 game and 8-bit Paletted Textures are working, 1024x768 resolution + use 8bit texture support checkbox enabled.

marxveix wrote on 2024-03-24, 22:08:

Rage Pro cards @ Driver 1999 game and 8-bit Paletted Textures are working, 1024x768 resolution + use 8bit texture support checkbox enabled.

Wow that looks excellent for something run on a Rage Pro. What were the frame rates like?

The Rage 3 is a very underrated generation, culminating nicely with the Rage XL. It's too bad that the final drivers break paletted texture support and have problems with 16-bit dithering, which do not appear in earlier drivers.

Kahenraz wrote on 2024-03-24, 20:02:

I have heard about these Alliance chips before. This is an impressive amount of graphical error. How does it look with Incoming?

There's something better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4B7hMKTRzk

DrAnthony wrote on 2024-03-25, 00:21:

marxveix wrote on 2024-03-24, 22:08:

Rage Pro cards @ Driver 1999 game and 8-bit Paletted Textures are working, 1024x768 resolution + use 8bit texture support checkbox enabled.

Wow that looks excellent for something run on a Rage Pro. What were the frame rates like?

Many things can run with Rage3 D3D, just use correct driver + change to better OGL version. I can look again, fraps takes how much framerate away? 1024x768 is not that bad @ 16 bit, 1280x1024 was way worse@that night level,1600x1200 was not possible to run, but resolution is available to take. All the car lights + turn signals show up correctly, lets say, more playable 640x480 up to 800x600 and i would not play over 1024x768. Possible to boost it up with gpu overclock+better cpu, what i have not done.

Kahenraz wrote on 2024-03-25, 01:29:

The Rage 3 is a very underrated generation, culminating nicely with the Rage XL. It's too bad that the final drivers break paletted texture support and have problems with 16-bit dithering, which do not appear in earlier drivers.

Do you know what is the latest driver after J5.12.0 (4.12.2647) that works? Anybody has J5.25.0 (4.13.2654) driver? Also M series has many 4.13 (directx8 drivers) for Win9x, there is at least seven directx8 drivers for Windows 9x and and more is out there. Rage3 4.13.xxxx (directx8 drivers) will not work out of the box for 8-bit Paletted Textures.

Here is good list of drivers with download for Rage Pro cards:
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/Win9x_Rage%20PRO?w=1

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-06-21, 14:49:

Got this ATi Rage XL today and I wanted to test its legacy feature set. It seems that support for paletted textures and table fo […]
Show full quote

Got this ATi Rage XL today and I wanted to test its legacy feature set. It seems that support for paletted textures and table fog varies depending on the driver version. Avoid the latest driver from 2002, as that one supports neither of these things. I ended up using W98_RXL_4_12_2647.exe from November of 2000. It has proper support for paletted textures and partial (but broken) support for table fog.

Final Fantasy VIII configuration program

FF8_Config.jpg

The Final Fantasy VIII configuration tool detects paletted texture support on the ATi Rage XL.

Final Fantasy VIII options menu

FF8_Menu.jpg

The in-game menu looks correct on the ATi Rage XL.

Thief II Mission 11: Precious Cargo

Thief2_Fog.jpg

There does seem to be some support for table fog on the ATi Rage XL, but it's pretty broken. There are no tweaks in the drivers for any settings so this is all that you get. I wouldn't exactly call the end result functional.

Rage3 4.13.xxxx (directx8/8.1 drivers) will not work out of the box for 8-bit Paletted Textures. All Directx6 and Directx7 Rage3 drivers seems to work with 8-bit Paletted Textures. Latest working drivers are M6.11.1xx ones - DirectX 7 based. The latest one at the moment is M6.11.125 (4.12.2173) .

4.12.2173_win9x_Rage_2001-05_3D-12.1031_OGL-1103_M6.11.125.zip
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/Win9x … .11.125.zip?w=1

marxveix wrote on 2024-04-05, 08:46:

Rage3 4.13.xxxx (directx8/8.1 drivers) will not work out of the box for 8-bit Paletted Textures. All Directx6 and Directx7 Rage3 drivers seems to work with 8-bit Paletted Textures. Latest working drivers are M6.11.1xx ones - DirectX 7 based. The latest one at the moment is M6.11.125 (4.12.2173) .

Good info, thanks for the additional tests.

I think I may have a slightly newer driver from the 4.12 series. If I recall correctly, the one I used was 4.12.2647. Not sure where I got it from, but I still have the file, and can upload it somewhere if other people need it.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-04-05, 09:13:

marxveix wrote on 2024-04-05, 08:46:

Rage3 4.13.xxxx (directx8/8.1 drivers) will not work out of the box for 8-bit Paletted Textures. All Directx6 and Directx7 Rage3 drivers seems to work with 8-bit Paletted Textures. Latest working drivers are M6.11.1xx ones - DirectX 7 based. The latest one at the moment is M6.11.125 (4.12.2173) .

Good info, thanks for the additional tests.

I think I may have a slightly newer driver from the 4.12 series. If I recall correctly, the one I used was 4.12.2647. Not sure where I got it from, but I still have the file, and can upload it somewhere if other people need it.

J and M series are different drivers, one for desktop (J series) and other for mobile (M series), 4.12.2173 drivers are newer, than 4.12.2647. 4.12.2173 uses 4.12.1031 d3d and 4.12.2647 uses 4.12.1018 d3d, both support 8-bit Paletted Textures. Naming can be confusing, check d3d and opengl versions and file dates also help. I have 4.12.2647 driver, previous post has big list of drivers, also J series 4.12.2647 driver.

Here is good list of drivers with download for Rage3 cards:
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/Win9x_Rage%20PRO?w=1

All M6.xx.xxx drivers are working with desktop cards, just add inf to ATIi9xab.inf if your videocard is missing:

One Rage XL AGP example:
"RAGE XL AGP (474D)"= MACXW4_AGP_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_474D&SUBSYS_474D1002, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_474D

Kahenraz wrote on 2024-03-24, 20:07:

Do these Alliance chips render any 3D correctly? Maybe DirectX 3-era games?

No. In fact, most of those "3D" chips were later rebadged for 2D only card called AT25.

As I was trying in the other thread about worst 3D cards, these Alliance chips can actually render quite "well" 3D old scenarios beside the gfx errors that must be accepted while rendering speed is quite good. Of course they were not sold as high end accelerator but low end at first. Drivers seems to do a whole difference for the rendering while it would have needed some better ones for sure. 😉

The most important question here is how's the Alliance card's 2D DOS compatibility

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-04-05, 12:37:

The most important question here is how's the Alliance card's 2D DOS compatibility

that's not an important question for a palette / fog thread, and the alliance chips lack blend functions and won't run any of the games tested here. and besides, that "most important question"'s already been answered

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-11-05, 06:37:

In summary, the Rage 128 Pro does not appear to support paletted textures. It may have some sort of partial support for table fog, but it renders the effect inaccurately, at least when driver version 4.13.7192 is used. If anyone else had a different experience with this card, possibly using older drivers, let us know.

ATi Rage 128 Pro does support paletted textures very well with Win9x, i have tested some DX6 4.11.xxxx and DX7 4.12.xxxx drivers out and they work. Added one 4.11.6745 driver here, that works, just enable paletted textures from D3D menu and thats it, all the magic comes from Ati3draa.dl_ (Ati3draa.dll) driver file that has to support this function.

@ D3D setting-enable it
Driver1999 game tested
Game and desktop pics!