mockingbird wrote:

I had to do the level again since the savegame posted earlier does not work

The Thief 2 saves were made with the latest official patch v1.18 applied.

I don't think they will work with earlier versions of the game.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-03-17, 05:45:

The Thief 2 saves were made with the latest official patch v1.18 applied.

I don't think they will work with earlier versions of the game.

I thought so and tried to update to 1.18... The update went through quite a few files and then hit a snag with a mismatch... So I thought why not play through the level.

It could be the ISO contains modified files for copy protection removal... Maybe better to obtain the GOG release.

mockingbird wrote on 2022-03-17, 05:57:

Maybe better to obtain the GOG release.

No. The GOG version contains fan patches which fix various rendering issues and enable 32-bit colors. I think these fixes also make table fog work on modern GPUs.

That's great for gaming on a new PC. But, for the purposes of this test, it's best to use the retail CD version.

Guys I’m trying to get fog in thief ii on ATI mobility M6. No registry thing there, mentioned on TTLG. Any other hacks? I’m on win 98 and omega drivers.

Which driver specifically?

Stock one and http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=1672&menustate=0

What version of ATI's reference drivers?

vorob wrote on 2022-03-29, 19:44:

Guys I’m trying to get fog in thief ii on ATI mobility M6. No registry thing there, mentioned on TTLG. Any other hacks? I’m on win 98 and omega drivers.

Here's what I use to enable table fog on ATi Radeon cards under Win98SE:

1. Start > Run > type regedit > Ok
2. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\ATI Technologies\Driver\000x\atidxhal
3. Right click on the empty space on the right side > New > String Value > type WFogEnable
4. Right click on the WFogEnable entry that you just created > Modify > type 0
5. Right click on the empty space on the right side > New > String Value > type ZFogEnable
6. Right click on the ZFogEnable entry that you just created > Modify > type 1
7. Right click on the empty space on the right side > New > String Value > type TableFogEnable
8. Right click on the TableFogEnable entry that you just created > Modify > type 1

This worked on my 9000 Pro using 4.3 WDM drivers and also on my 9550 using normal Catalyst 6.2 drivers. I'm not sure if it will work on other Radeon models or with different driver versions. Lastly, some games like Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire won't display table fog even with this tweak.

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-03-29, 20:30:

What version of ATI's reference drivers?

Well, the driver version is 4.13.9013

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-03-29, 20:34:

Here's what I use to enable table fog on ATi Radeon cards under Win98SE:

Wow, it worked. Thanks! The fog is weird, not like it should be, but still it’s better than nothing!

vorob wrote on 2022-03-30, 14:46:

Wow, it worked. Thanks! The fog is weird, not like it should be, but still it’s better than nothing!

Yeah, I don't think it's possible to get table fog on ATi Radeon cards to look exactly as it does on Nvidia/3DFX/Matrox cards under Win9x. A relative approximation is the best that one can hope for.

Perfect table fog rendering on Radeons can only be achieved under WinXP using 7.11 drivers or newer.

It looks like they're using vertex fog to emulate it. It has a similar effect but I don't think that it will ever be accurate.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-03-29, 20:34:

Here's what I use to enable table fog on ATi Radeon cards under Win98SE: […]
Show full quote

Here's what I use to enable table fog on ATi Radeon cards under Win98SE:

1. Start > Run > type regedit > Ok
2. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\ATI Technologies\Driver\000x\atidxhal
3. Right click on the empty space on the right side > New > String Value > type WFogEnable
4. Right click on the WFogEnable entry that you just created > Modify > type 0
5. Right click on the empty space on the right side > New > String Value > type ZFogEnable
6. Right click on the ZFogEnable entry that you just created > Modify > type 1
7. Right click on the empty space on the right side > New > String Value > type TableFogEnable
8. Right click on the TableFogEnable entry that you just created > Modify > type 1

This worked on my 9000 Pro using 4.3 WDM drivers and also on my 9550 using normal Catalyst 6.2 drivers. I'm not sure if it will work on other Radeon models or with different driver versions. Lastly, some games like Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire won't display table fog even with this tweak.

Thanks.

This worked on my V7100 @ X800 XT using Catalyst 6.2:

I was unaware that the table fog capable cards could work properly with table fog and the newer drivers, but apparently, they can.

GeForce 2 Ultra with Forceware 66.94:

I don't know what OS and hardware you're running on, but it's my opinion, after having done very extensive testing with NVIDIA cards, that any driver after 56.64 is not worth the trouble on Windows 9x/ME systems. These drivers have serious bugs in games and on some hardware will cause severe system instability. They may be fine on Windows 2000 and other NT systems, but I haven't ever tried this.

I think the consensus is that for older systems, this generally doesn't matter, as there are often adantages to be gained with earlier drivers and only disadvantages when using older hardware.

The card in your example, the GeForce 2 Ultra is very fast on a late Pentium 4 with 56.64 drivers, due to CPU enhancements, but can be cripplingly slow on some Socket 7 systems where the best performance can be had at the 12.41 driver release.

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-04-06, 05:46:

I don't know what OS and hardware you're running on, but it's my opinion, after having done very extensive testing with NVIDIA cards, that any driver after 56.64 is not worth the trouble on Windows 9x/ME systems. These drivers have serious bugs in games and on some hardware will cause severe system instability. They may be fine on Windows 2000 and other NT systems, but I haven't ever tried this.

I think the consensus is that for older systems, this generally doesn't matter, as there are often adantages to be gained with earlier drivers and only disadvantages when using older hardware.

The card in your example, the GeForce 2 Ultra is very fast on a late Pentium 4 with 56.64 drivers but can be cripplingly slow on some Socket 7 systems after driver 12.41.

Ah yes, of course you're right, but I was just testing this system for something else so I had that driver installed...

I plan on using Detonator 6.32 for this card. This is for a strictly DirectX 6 and lower build.

mockingbird wrote on 2022-04-06, 04:25:

I was unaware that the table fog capable cards could work properly with table fog and the newer drivers, but apparently, they can.

GeForce 2 Ultra with Forceware 66.94:

While Nvidia did drop paletted textures with the GeForce6 series, they kept table fog around for a long time.

I'm getting fog rendering with the retail CD version of Thief2 + patch 1.18 on my 9600GT using 285.58 drivers under WinXP. It doesn't look exactly the same as on older cards, but it still works. This is with default driver settings, no extra tweaks applied. The 16-bit color dithering on that setup is pretty bad though.

16-bit dithering got dropped after Geforce8xxx (and RadeonHD as well) as DX10 hardware signified a huge refresh on pipelines and a lot of older fixed function stuff put through shaders instead.

leileilol wrote on 2022-04-06, 07:24:

16-bit dithering got dropped after Geforce8xxx (and RadeonHD as well) as DX10 hardware signified a huge refresh on pipelines and a lot of older fixed function stuff put through shaders instead.

Heh, I was just adding that to my post but you beat me to it.

The color banding is quite noticeable on the 9600GT screenshot that I posted above.

The death of 16-bit dithering is the death of an era. I think there was still plenty of room for improvement of the technique before it became outdated by fast 32-bit color.

I can remember as a kid being unable to tell the difference and wondering what all the hubbub was about.