VOGONS


Pentium 1 - 60 MHZ - Graphics Card

Topic actions

First post, by Smack2k

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Building a Pentium 1 - 60 MHZ machine with DOS 6.22 installed (maybe Win 3.11 but mostly for DOS). Trying to figure out what PCI Graphics Card to use:

Matrox Millenium 4 MB
TSENG ET4000
ATI Mach64
S3 Trio (various Trio versions)
S3 Virge
S3 Virge DX 4 MB

Looking for Opinions....

Reply 1 of 159, by matze79

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Tseng ET6000 😁

I would opt for a Virge 325 with 4Mb, and a 3Dfx Voodoo 1 😀

So you can play S3D Games and 3DFx.

if you want excellent Video Quality and SuperB 2D Support in DOS i would go for ET6000 😀

https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board

Reply 2 of 159, by Smack2k

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I could go the Virge 325 4MB route....only issue is my second Voodoo1 card is a Canopus Pure 3D that I have tried to build a pass through cable for, but the signal isnt perfect after its built, colors are kind of washed out and the BIOS / POST Screens show in another color than white....I could try to re-wire it again and see how it goes....

But I can toss the Virge in for now and get it built...

Reply 4 of 159, by Smack2k

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Would you still agree with going the S3 route though? I dont have an ET6000 so that is out, so S3 or Matrox Millenium would be my choices for now.....the system will be running DOS games primarily......

Reply 5 of 159, by clueless1

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

The Virge DX is faster than the Virge 325 and retains the compatibility. That would be my choice.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 6 of 159, by leileilol

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
The Serpent Rider wrote:

Socket 4 Pentium is too weak for 3dfx.

If a 486 can use a 3dfx card usefully to much benefit (no CPU chokage on fpu-heavy software renderers), I can't see why not for an actually matured PCI platform. There's nothing more appropriate for the low-end than the 3dfx VG/V2 contrary to what the 3dfx powerholio fancult thinks about CPU bottlenecks insulting some kind of 3dfx legacy.

apsosig.png
long live PCem

Reply 7 of 159, by The Serpent Rider

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

f a 486 can use a 3dfx card usefully to much benefit (no CPU chokage on fpu-heavy software renderers)

Which could be even faster in such scenario, due to much higher clocks. But it's still slow to my taste.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 8 of 159, by matze79

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
clueless1 wrote:

The Virge DX is faster than the Virge 325 and retains the compatibility. That would be my choice.

its not fully combatible without tsr and other stuff..

Also 3Dfx works fine in Pentium 60, don't mind 😀 there still plenty of games you can play.
Many DOS Games with 3Dfx Support will benefit from it.
Archimedian Dynasty/Schleichfahrt, Carmageddon, Tomb Raider...

And early Glide Games also run perfect.
A Pentium 233MMX is already bottlenecked by V1.
i consider a 166Mhz CPU optimum for V1, unless you want to do crude things like running Q3A..

https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board

Reply 9 of 159, by The Serpent Rider

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Archimedian Dynasty is extremely CPU limited at the later stages.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 10 of 159, by FFXIhealer

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
matze79 wrote:

A Pentium 233MMX is already bottlenecked by V1.
i consider a 166Mhz CPU optimum for V1, unless you want to do crude things like running Q3A..

If I have a 200MHz non-MMX Pentium in a Socket 7 MB with 64MB of EDO RAM (60ns) and running Windows 95 OSR 2 with an ATI Rage IIc 2MB PCI graphics card, would you recommend the Voodoo1 or the Voodoo2 for that system?

292dps.png
3smzsb.png
0fvil8.png
lhbar1.png

Reply 11 of 159, by clueless1

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
matze79 wrote:
clueless1 wrote:

The Virge DX is faster than the Virge 325 and retains the compatibility. That would be my choice.

its not fully combatible without tsr and other stuff..

The TSR is S3VBE, which uses less memory than Univbe or SDD, and only needed for some SVGA games, which you probably won't be playing on a P60 anyway. What "other stuff" are you referring to?

I was answering OPs question on choosing between the options he stated. I think the Virge DX is clearly the best option of the six chipsets he listed.

I do like the idea of a Voodoo1 as an addition, though. But that wasn't his question. 😉

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 12 of 159, by gdjacobs

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
FFXIhealer wrote:
matze79 wrote:

A Pentium 233MMX is already bottlenecked by V1.
i consider a 166Mhz CPU optimum for V1, unless you want to do crude things like running Q3A..

If I have a 200MHz non-MMX Pentium in a Socket 7 MB with 64MB of EDO RAM (60ns) and running Windows 95 OSR 2 with an ATI Rage IIc 2MB PCI graphics card, would you recommend the Voodoo1 or the Voodoo2 for that system?

Do you want to focus on DOS games or Windows? The Voodoo 1 is fully compatible with every DOS Glide title (including the weird, statically linked ones), whereas the Voodoo 2 is better able to take you to the limits of Pentium CPUs.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 13 of 159, by FFXIhealer

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I don't have many DOS games, but I did download Tomb Raider and I can't get it to work on my Voodoo2 cards at all. This issue was described in a previous thread over a year ago and still has not been resolved. Mainly I stick within Windows for games, but I think with THAT system, I was going to have a blend of both. Although Duke Nukem 3D doesn't run particularly well on that system unless you put it in a lower resolution.

Does it help that I already have a Pentium 3 system with dual Voodoo2 cards in SLI running Windows 98 SE? 🤣 I just see the Voodoo cards are always stupid-expensive for the age of the cards. Voodoo1 cards usually carry a nearly $40 USD cost. Voodoo2 cards are similar, usually people wanting around $60 for a card. Since I'm in America, prices are higher and the cards are harder to find. It would be easier if I lived in Asia or something.

292dps.png
3smzsb.png
0fvil8.png
lhbar1.png

Reply 14 of 159, by dionb

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Smack2k wrote:
Building a Pentium 1 - 60 MHZ machine with DOS 6.22 installed (maybe Win 3.11 but mostly for DOS). Trying to figure out what PC […]
Show full quote

Building a Pentium 1 - 60 MHZ machine with DOS 6.22 installed (maybe Win 3.11 but mostly for DOS). Trying to figure out what PCI Graphics Card to use:

Matrox Millenium 4 MB
TSENG ET4000
ATI Mach64
S3 Trio (various Trio versions)
S3 Virge
S3 Virge DX 4 MB

Looking for Opinions....

Look at the dates of the components and see what matches:

Intel Pentium 60: 1993

Matrox Millennium: 1995
Tseng ET4000 (assumedly the ET4000W/32p): 1994
ATi Mach64: 1994/1995/1996 depending on version. The Mach64CX and GX are the ones that date to 1994
S3 Trio: anywhere from 1994 (Trio32, Trio64 without extra letters/symbols) to 1997.
S3 Virge: 1996
S3 Virge/DX: 1996

In other words, the ET4000 is the best definitive match, with the ATi Mach64 and S3 Trio possibly also.

Of course you don't have to stay period correct, but in that case you just choose whatever you want. The Millennium probably would give you the best analog image quality, the Virges the best VESA compatibility.

Reply 15 of 159, by feipoa

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
leileilol wrote:
The Serpent Rider wrote:

Socket 4 Pentium is too weak for 3dfx.

If a 486 can use a 3dfx card usefully to much benefit (no CPU chokage on fpu-heavy software renderers), I can't see why not for an actually matured PCI platform. There's nothing more appropriate for the low-end than the 3dfx VG/V2 contrary to what the 3dfx powerholio fancult thinks about CPU bottlenecks insulting some kind of 3dfx legacy.

I was starting to think that I was the only one with this opinion.

I've slowly been compiling a list of 3dfx games which are playable on a Cx5x86-133 with a Voodoo2. Off the top of my head, GLQuake, GLDoom I, GLDoom II, Forsaken, Carmageddon, Descent I, Descent II, Tomb Raider, Tomb Raider Unfinished Business, Tomb Raider 2, Tomb Raider 3, MDK, Outlaws (using D3D better though) and Dark Forces 1 all are perfectly enjoyable in my opinion. With a Matrox G200 and D3D, TR2/3 also play fine, as does Outlaws, and Battlezone (marginal). More testing needed. Incoming (10 fps), Half-life, and Quake II are too slow though. For non-accelerated titles tested, Magic Carpet II and Duke3D (I think at 640x480) all play fine by my standards. Blood was too slow though. My threshold is pretty low, however I don't like to go much below an 18 fps average.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 16 of 159, by The Serpent Rider

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Off the top of my head, GLQuake, GLDoom I, GLDoom II, Forsaken, Carmageddon, Descent I, Descent II

I don't find regular dips below 10 fps enjoyable or playable whatsoever.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 17 of 159, by feipoa

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

The frame rates shown in that video wouldn't bother me, though my system does seem quite a bit faster. The lowest dip I saw on my system running that same demo was 14 fps, and I only saw it twice. Max 40+ fps. What bothers me far more than framerate is the lack of mouse support in the 3dfx patch for Descent 1. Not sure how that guy's system takes GLQuake, but my cx5x86-133 system w/voodoo2 scores 29.3 fps w/out sound and w/out any optimisation.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 18 of 159, by mwdmeyer

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Back in the day my Pentium 133 had a TNT2 M64 PCI! That opened a whole new world of games for me. So a Voodoo 1/2 in a Pentium 60 seems completely acceptable to me.

Vogons Wiki - http://vogonswiki.com

Reply 19 of 159, by appiah4

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Of those cards only the ET4000 is a contemporary to the P5 core, so that gets my vote. S3 Trio and Mach64 got released one year after the P5 IIRC, Virge, Millennium are also several years off.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.