Radeon 7000 series gfx-Cards (Retro-Build)

Discussion about old graphics cards, monitors and video related things.

Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-4-30 @ 22:43

I am currently searching for the savage4-pci.
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby weldum » 2018-4-30 @ 22:46

Good luck, if you need help in something else, let me know or post it in the forum
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Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-5-01 @ 11:06

Turok1:
Did some further testing. It's not the fogtable-option, it's the "render-overlap" function.
If I disable this, turok1 runs super smooth. Don't know what "render-overlap" does.
Some colors are still off (smoke on the logo is green instead orange/brown, but that's no big issue.

R7000pci Performance in 800x600 at 32 Bit is excellent up to q3-engine. s3tc looks very good in ut99 and now in unreal to (226/ogl patch)
But there are still some problems to investigate:

- Unreal is very blocky in the distance. There is something wrong in the opengl-switches.
- Forsaken does not start. Perhaps my Version is to old and I need to upgrade
- Blood2 Performance is OK but I think it can be optimized.
- Shadow-Man stutters badly, there is something wrong (fps are very high)
- Jazz2 does not support smooth scrolling anymore (works only in Riva128, Voodoo3 @ 640x400 256colors) all other cards fail badly
- DariusGaiden does not scroll smooth (never found a gfx-card that does smooth scrolling with this title. Fps is locked to 50, so it might be the engine itself)
- D3D in HouseOfthe Dead seems to be a little fuzzy and performance is not static. Some frame-drops noticeable.

Greetings
Doc

Next thing: Testing more catalyst drivers for compatibility. Testing more games.
Last edited by dr.zeissler on 2018-5-01 @ 12:01, edited 1 time in total.
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-5-01 @ 12:00

R100's pixel shaders: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJn ... eries.html
R100-based GPUs have programmable shading capability in their pipelines; however, the chips are not flexible enough to support the Microsoft Direct3D specification for Pixel Shader 1.1. A forum post by an ATI engineer in 2001 clarified this: ...prior to the final release of DirectX 8.0, Microsoft decided that it was better to expose the RADEON's and GeForce{2}'s extended multitexture capabilities via the extensions to SetTextureStageState() instead of via the pixel shader interface.....The fact that that registry key exists indicates that we did some experiments in the driver, not that we are half way done implementing pixel shaders on RADEON. DirectX 8.0's 1.0 and 1.1 pixel shaders are not supported by RADEON and never will be. The silicon just can't do what is required to support 1.0 or 1.1 shaders. This is also true of GeForce and GeForce2.


I was wondering because auf the RadeonArk-Demo looked very much like pixselshader.
If there is no flully support for ps1.x are there any programs beside the ark-demo known, that are directly coded for the pixelshader-functions in the R7000?
(perhaps some Demoscene-stuff?)

Greetings
Doc
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby weldum » 2018-5-02 @ 04:59

dr.zeissler wrote:R100's pixel shaders: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJn ... eries.html
R100-based GPUs have programmable shading capability in their pipelines; however, the chips are not flexible enough to support the Microsoft Direct3D specification for Pixel Shader 1.1. A forum post by an ATI engineer in 2001 clarified this: ...prior to the final release of DirectX 8.0, Microsoft decided that it was better to expose the RADEON's and GeForce{2}'s extended multitexture capabilities via the extensions to SetTextureStageState() instead of via the pixel shader interface.....The fact that that registry key exists indicates that we did some experiments in the driver, not that we are half way done implementing pixel shaders on RADEON. DirectX 8.0's 1.0 and 1.1 pixel shaders are not supported by RADEON and never will be. The silicon just can't do what is required to support 1.0 or 1.1 shaders. This is also true of GeForce and GeForce2.


I was wondering because auf the RadeonArk-Demo looked very much like pixselshader.
If there is no flully support for ps1.x are there any programs beside the ark-demo known, that are directly coded for the pixelshader-functions in the R7000?
(perhaps some Demoscene-stuff?)

Greetings
Doc


i think no, because these were features that were viewed as optional due to not being required for directx to be compatible. there is the official demos only.

about your performance and compatibility issues, it may be the computer, can you post the specifications of your machine? with the OS listed too
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Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-5-02 @ 12:34

FSC Scenic XS
MOB: D1215
CPU: 1400 Tualatin P3
RAM: 512 MB
FDD: 3,5" 1,44MB
CDD: DVD-Rom Slim
HDD: 40GB IDE
PCI1: ESS-Solo1 PCI
PCI2: R7000-PCI 64MB

HDD: (XFDISK Bootmanager)
02GB P MSDOS62
02GB L DOSDATA1
02GB L DOSDATA2
02GB L DOSDATA3
26GB P WIN98SE
06GB P WIN2000
Attachments
IMG_0060.JPG
IMG_0059.JPG
IMG_0058.JPG
IMG_0057.JPG
IMG_0056.JPG
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-5-02 @ 12:43

I have lot's of options with this machine:
- CPU 533-1400 Mhz
- OS/2 NT4 WINXP also possible
- PCI GFX R7000/R9000/GF6200/MATROX MGA/MIL/etc.
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby weldum » 2018-5-02 @ 13:13

First of all, really nice machine, second, i think it's fine the computer.

You should try some video card in the lines of the Matrox g400, the voodoo 3 3500 or a TNT 2 Ultra, to see if there is any difference in performance or compatibility.
Still, for that processor, i would use something more powerful, a radeon 8500 or 9700 pro, or a geforce 4 or 3 if available
The gf6200 is not very recommended because of only one driver for 9x, and lack of support for palletized textures and other things
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Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-5-02 @ 13:48

The AGP Slot is not usable because of the casedesign. I 'll have to stick to PCI-Cards, BUT I can chose from a lot of different ones viewtopic.php?f=63&t=33483
Some I do have https://www.flickr.com/photos/94839221@ ... 5724554005 , some I don't have at the moment.

G400 is none PCI, V3-2000 works; I don't have any TNT PCI Card at the moment. R8500/9700 GF4/3 are AGP, GF2/4 MX as PCI could be possible.
Riva128 does work too. HerculesProphet has fantastic image quality, but no centering between textmode (vga) and VGA/EGA Lowres. I HATE! THAT.

The machine is capable of a lot of dosgames, so it's essentiel to me that the textmode (vga) and VGA/EGA lowres are (nearly equal) centered and not left or right centimeters off.

V2 does not fit (except the small one with fan, which I currently don't have), V4-PCI does fit (but I habe none), V5-PCI does fit too (but I will have to takeout the drivers, what I will never do).

Voodoo1 does fit but performance is bad, same with Nec PCX1+2.

Don't get me wrong, the R7000 is really good! With this card I am able to play lot's of fine stuff in great quality. But I think there will be other/better options. Currently bidding on a R9250/128MB(64Bit). The R9250/256MB(128Bit) is really hard to find!.
Last edited by dr.zeissler on 2018-5-02 @ 13:55, edited 1 time in total.
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-5-02 @ 13:51

btw. the onboard I815e gfx-chip is really good too.(for retro-computing) and it has Win3x drivers (up to true color), but then I will have to use V1/PCX1/2 in order to get 3D.
If I could get my hands on a v2 short design, or even better a Voodoo4-PCI, that would be nice.
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby weldum » 2018-5-02 @ 13:56

I see, then it's hard to solve, you can try a geforce 2mx or 4mx with a driver not newer than 45.23, to see.
In my (now defunct) duron machine i had an agp geforce 2mx 400 and it had good performance and excellent compatibility with said driver under any OS. image quality was a little bit bad sadly as those cards are made with cheapest components in mind
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Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-5-02 @ 22:04

Seems to be difficult to find a real 128Bit R9250 as an upgrade-option to the R7000. Don't know why this is so confusing. I good indicator should be if the vram-chips are above and right beside the gfx-chip. that might indicate that the card has a 128Bit memory interface, but some pictures form the manufactures seem not prove that 100%.

I think I should go for a 256MB card. that's perhaps the best chance of getting a 128Bit memory interface, or what would you suggest?
Attachments
RADEON_PCI.png
R9250_ATI.png
HIS_R9250.png
DIAMOND-R9250.png
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: Turok fog Radeon 7000

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-5-03 @ 13:10

CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: Radeon 7000 series gfx-Cards (Retro-Build)

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-12-04 @ 12:17

@weldum
After testing the horrible Savage4 Freezing-Card, I went back to the R7000-PCI.
I will checkout earlier drivers as you mentioned.
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: Radeon 7000 series gfx-Cards (Retro-Build)

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-12-04 @ 13:08

dr.zeissler wrote:@weldum
After testing the horrible Savage4 Freezing-Card, I went back to the R7000-PCI.
I will checkout earlier drivers as you mentioned.



...but it's harder as expected to find earlier drivers of that card. AMD/ATI offers only 6.2
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: Radeon 7000 series gfx-Cards (Retro-Build)

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-12-05 @ 17:23

I installed the w9x omega radeon drivers and guess what, the radeon's ark-demo 1.3 is fine now. no errors at all, fantastic!
Lots of effects on this demo look like pixelshaders, it's hard to believe how good the quality is. A real highlight these R7000 cards.
The R7000 produces a really sharp and centered image on the TFT too. Now it's time for compatiblity testing with games...

The driver need DirectX9 installed.
http://www.tmeeco.eu/9X4EVER/GOODIES/AT ... a_2637.exe
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: Radeon 7000 series gfx-Cards (Retro-Build)

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-12-07 @ 20:46

Any idea why UT99 looks better on R7000 then on R9000/9250 https://www.flickr.com/photos/94839221@N05/
Identical driver, identical settings, why are the textures better on R7000?
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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