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Super Socket 7 issues with agp cards

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Reply 20 of 35, by Nemo1985

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cxm717 wrote:
Nemo1985 wrote:

I'm trying the 2 problematic cards in a p4 machine with sis 654 and windows xp, they are good with windows but both are unable to run 3dmark99 (it is patched to work with windows xp and I tried other cards), I saw a video on youtube where 3dmark99 is running in a windows98 pc and i740, while the g450 is compatible for sure.
For I740 3dmark says it doesn't support 3d texture, while the g450 dualhead it says it needs a direct 6 3d accelerator in order to work.
I'm wondering again if those cards are broken or what. 😠

Try an older driver on the G450. 584 works well in 2k and XP. I don't remember the i740 working very well under 2k and XP, I would try 98 with that card.

Ok I started from scratch
I tried the latest drivers: 2.13.03.002 SE U WHQL (Oct. 2, 2013), they don't work, after I tried 6.00.004 SE (Oct. 22, 2008), they don't work too, the one you adviced work.
Definitely Matrox screw something with that "recent" drivers.

For I740 there are just the drivers coming with windows xp, you are right I should try windows 98 but all my agp machines are ss7 or newers, I don't have any slot1 mb (to be honest I have one but I don't know if it works and I can't test it for now).

Thank you for your help!

Reply 21 of 35, by misterjones

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Nemo1985 wrote:
Ok I started from scratch I tried the latest drivers: 2.13.03.002 SE U WHQL (Oct. 2, 2013), they don't work, after I tried 6.00. […]
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cxm717 wrote:
Nemo1985 wrote:

I'm trying the 2 problematic cards in a p4 machine with sis 654 and windows xp, they are good with windows but both are unable to run 3dmark99 (it is patched to work with windows xp and I tried other cards), I saw a video on youtube where 3dmark99 is running in a windows98 pc and i740, while the g450 is compatible for sure.
For I740 3dmark says it doesn't support 3d texture, while the g450 dualhead it says it needs a direct 6 3d accelerator in order to work.
I'm wondering again if those cards are broken or what. 😠

Try an older driver on the G450. 584 works well in 2k and XP. I don't remember the i740 working very well under 2k and XP, I would try 98 with that card.

Ok I started from scratch
I tried the latest drivers: 2.13.03.002 SE U WHQL (Oct. 2, 2013), they don't work, after I tried 6.00.004 SE (Oct. 22, 2008), they don't work too, the one you adviced work.
Definitely Matrox screw something with that "recent" drivers.

For I740 there are just the drivers coming with windows xp, you are right I should try windows 98 but all my agp machines are ss7 or newers, I don't have any slot1 mb (to be honest I have one but I don't know if it works and I can't test it for now).

Thank you for your help!

Matrox G400/G450 Quake III Performance

Under 2000/XP, get the 5.96.004 driver for the G450. In that thread I showed it working under XP with D3D and OpenGL working just fine. Later drivers have D3D disable for some stupid reason and because of that I never tested whether or not OpenGL worked. The one you want is the version released on May 8th, 2006. There's a direct link to it on that page in one of my replies.

Reply 22 of 35, by Nemo1985

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misterjones wrote:

Matrox G400/G450 Quake III Performance

Under 2000/XP, get the 5.96.004 driver for the G450. In that thread I showed it working under XP with D3D and OpenGL working just fine. Later drivers have D3D disable for some stupid reason and because of that I never tested whether or not OpenGL worked. The one you want is the version released on May 8th, 2006. There's a direct link to it on that page in one of my replies.

Thank you, ill try this driver too, g450 gets nice results in 3dmark99.

Reply 23 of 35, by Nemo1985

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This evening I'm trying the S3 Trio 775 V2/DX on my p4 machine with windows xp.
While in windows 98, 3dmark99 works with some errors, like lens flare, missing hardware feature, in wxp 3dmark99 render is completely broken

Reply 25 of 35, by Nemo1985

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Another day, another half issue...
With Epox MVP3G5 a geforce 2 mx400 that never gave me issues (i'm doing some testing) when I mounted a 3dfx voodoo 1 (bought as untested) I started to have problems, the pc throws errors and bsod on windows 98 or hangs in dos, I changed the video card to a permedia 2 agp and voodoo 1 and apparently I didn't have any issue anymore.

Reply 26 of 35, by canthearu

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Necroing an old thread, because I've had a chance to test one of these super socket 7 AGP boards myself.

Got myself a TOMATO TM-586 AL100B motherboard with AMD K6-2. This is an ALI Aladdin V chipset motherboard.

I plonked in 128meg RAM and started testing it. First card I tried under Windows 98 SE was a Nvidia Riva TNT with Detonator 6.31 drivers. And it just worked perfectly, with AGP indicated as running, while testing with 3dMark99 benchmark and demo.

Next I put in the a Voodoo Banshee. Works great, doesn't crash, just as expected.

Then I decided that it was time to really push this board to breaking point. I put in an i740 I have kicking around. This one not even stored or in an anti-static bag, as I assume it will get broken one day and I can finally toss it. And what would you know, this card also, works just fine running 3dMark99 demo and benchmark. Just behind me, it is running it in a loop, no issues, AGP texturing working just fine.

So blow me over with a feather, there are at least some super socket 7 with good working AGP.

Anyone else have any card ideas I should test out?

Reply 27 of 35, by appiah4

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canthearu wrote on 2021-01-31, 15:26:
Necroing an old thread, because I've had a chance to test one of these super socket 7 AGP boards myself. […]
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Necroing an old thread, because I've had a chance to test one of these super socket 7 AGP boards myself.

Got myself a TOMATO TM-586 AL100B motherboard with AMD K6-2. This is an ALI Aladdin V chipset motherboard.

I plonked in 128meg RAM and started testing it. First card I tried under Windows 98 SE was a Nvidia Riva TNT with Detonator 6.31 drivers. And it just worked perfectly, with AGP indicated as running, while testing with 3dMark99 benchmark and demo.

Next I put in the a Voodoo Banshee. Works great, doesn't crash, just as expected.

Then I decided that it was time to really push this board to breaking point. I put in an i740 I have kicking around. This one not even stored or in an anti-static bag, as I assume it will get broken one day and I can finally toss it. And what would you know, this card also, works just fine running 3dMark99 demo and benchmark. Just behind me, it is running it in a loop, no issues, AGP texturing working just fine.

So blow me over with a feather, there are at least some super socket 7 with good working AGP.

Anyone else have any card ideas I should test out?

Aladdin V is a generally well behaved AGP chipset. You would probably have no issues with a TNT2, Savage3D and Rage128 (non pro).x

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 29 of 35, by Sphere478

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Freeway mobos seem to have good agp. I have a ultra and a non ultra

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 30 of 35, by bloodem

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magicmanred wrote on 2022-06-22, 06:48:

Not sure if it was asked here... But does the Gigabyte GA-5AX (ALI chipset SS7) have issues with an AGP version of the MX400?

Most SS7 boards are by default potentially affected by AGP issues, but 99% of those issues come from running @ AGP2X and/or wrong chipset/video driver combos.

The GA-5AX will be rock solid and quite fast as well if you switch from AGP 2X to AGP 1X using the ALI AGP Tool (don't worry, there will be no performance penalty), installing the ALI/ULI 2.13 chipset driver and the nVIDIA driver version 7.76.

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 31 of 35, by magicmanred

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bloodem wrote on 2022-06-22, 07:16:
magicmanred wrote on 2022-06-22, 06:48:

Not sure if it was asked here... But does the Gigabyte GA-5AX (ALI chipset SS7) have issues with an AGP version of the MX400?

Most SS7 boards are by default potentially affected by AGP issues, but 99% of those issues come from running @ AGP2X and/or wrong chipset/video driver combos.

The GA-5AX will be rock solid and quite fast as well if you switch from AGP 2X to AGP 1X using the ALI AGP Tool (don't worry, there will be no performance penalty), installing the ALI/ULI 2.13 chipset driver and the nVIDIA driver version 7.76.

Sweet!

I'm running a boot manager with many OS's.
DOS 6.22 / Win3.11 / Win95 / Win98 SE / Win ME / Win 2000 Pro

I use an S3 Virge GX 4MB PCI for the first three.

For 98, ME, 2K I have a couple AGP cards at my disposal:
• Voodoo 3500
• TNT2 Ultra

Was thinking of grabbing an MX400 AGP to play with... but never knew if I'd run into issues.

Question:
If I switch the AGP to 1X with the ALI AGP tool for the Voodoo 3500 or TNT2 Ultra, would there be any performance hits? (I'm assuming no if there isn't for the MX400).

Lastly,
Where could I find the ALI AGP Tool you mentioned?
Is it in the ALI ULI 2.13 Chipset Driver install?
Because I found that @ MajorGeeks, and I found the nVidia drivers here on Vogons.

Thanks!

Reply 32 of 35, by bloodem

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magicmanred wrote on 2022-06-22, 07:43:

Where could I find the ALI AGP Tool you mentioned?
Is it in the ALI ULI 2.13 Chipset Driver install?

Yes, that's the one.

magicmanred wrote on 2022-06-22, 07:43:

Question:
If I switch the AGP to 1X with the ALI AGP tool for the Voodoo 3500 or TNT2 Ultra, would there be any performance hits? (I'm assuming no if there isn't for the MX400).

Well, first of all, you should only switch to AGP 1X if you're actually having problems during gameplay.

Voodoo cards are known to almost always work reliably on SS7, without needing any tweaks (even @ AGP 2X), because they don't use any AGP features anyway... underneath they're basically just PCI cards.
But even with nVIDIA cards, it's not a given that you will ABSOLUTELY face issues. Each SS7 motherboard behaves differently (yes, even multiple motherboards with the same make, model and revision can behave differently!). So it's a matter of trial & error: you can test any card you like at default settings and if it works @ AGP 2X, you can obviously leave it like this, no need for further tweaks. 😀

Now, to address your performance penalty concerns: based on my tests, AGP 1X is more than enough for any of these cards (up to at least a GeForce 3 Ti 200), even when removing most of the CPU bottleneck (on a much faster platform). So, you can be sure that on a very slow platform (such as SS7), with a slow-ish card like GeForce 2 MX400... you have absolutely nothing to worry about. 😀

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 34 of 35, by magicmanred

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bloodem wrote on 2022-06-22, 10:24:
Well, first of all, you should only switch to AGP 1X if you're actually having problems during gameplay. […]
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Well, first of all, you should only switch to AGP 1X if you're actually having problems during gameplay.

Voodoo cards are known to almost always work reliably on SS7, without needing any tweaks (even @ AGP 2X), because they don't use any AGP features anyway... underneath they're basically just PCI cards.
But even with nVIDIA cards, it's not a given that you will ABSOLUTELY face issues. Each SS7 motherboard behaves differently (yes, even multiple motherboards with the same make, model and revision can behave differently!). So it's a matter of trial & error: you can test any card you like at default settings and if it works @ AGP 2X, you can obviously leave it like this, no need for further tweaks. 😀

Now, to address your performance penalty concerns: based on my tests, AGP 1X is more than enough for any of these cards (up to at least a GeForce 3 Ti 200), even when removing most of the CPU bottleneck (on a much faster platform). So, you can be sure that on a very slow platform (such as SS7), with a slow-ish card like GeForce 2 MX400... you have absolutely nothing to worry about. 😀

Thank you for the insight!

I'm going to go ahead and add an MX400 AGP to my collection and cross my fingers.
I'm not looking to spent much time on it, more for tinkering and toying around once in a while 😀

Cheers and thanks again!
Here's a shot of one wall of my PC museum <3

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Reply 35 of 35, by bloodem

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magicmanred wrote on 2022-06-22, 17:01:

Thank you for the insight!

You are very welcome!

magicmanred wrote on 2022-06-22, 17:01:

Here's a shot of one wall of my PC museum <3

Wow, that's awesome! I'm actually very jealous 😀

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k