9800.
No.

I'm not aware of any advantages for the 9700PRO, I suppose it supports slightly older drivers?
in any case, the 9700PRO for me is a little more interesting because it was the first of an era.

The 9700 doesn't support trilinear filtering optimizations (aka brilinear) so its trilinear filtering is slightly higher quality (and more demanding for the chip). I'm not sure if it can be seen outside of synthetic tests though. 9600/9800 added this capability.

9800 also adds that F-Buffer stuff. Not sure that has practical value for any games though.

Assuming your motherboard is compatible with both, I would use the 9800 (might not be AGP 3.3v, depending on chip version) but would keep the 9700 (AGP 3.3v compatible) as a spare . These cards generate a fair amount of heat (for their time, though nothing like the FX5800) but are not always equipped with an adequate cooling solution. This will probably have on impact on longevity (I have a couple of dead 9800 Pros) .

See http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html for compaibility info .

the 9700PRO for me is a little more interesting

I would avoid any long use of 9700 Pro. They are painfully hard to find in working condition and die very randomly. 9800 Pro dies randomly too, but quite easy to find.

The only advantage to keeping the 9700PRO is that it is exponentially rarer than the 9800PRO, but it's also more prone to failure over time.

I have a 9800 (in all respects equivalent to the 9700PRO, actually even built on a 9700PRO board with an R360 and 9800PRO BIOS) and a 9800PRO, and the speed difference is around 15%.

appiah4 wrote:

The only advantage to keeping the 9700PRO is that it is exponentially rarer than the 9800PRO, but it's also more prone to failure over time.

I have a 9800 (in all respects equivalent to the 9700PRO, actually even built on a 9700PRO board with an R360 and 9800PRO BIOS) and a 9800PRO, and the speed difference is around 15%.

'
I thought the reason for 9700 pros failures were often the shim problem and if you fix that they don't really fail more often than 9800pro?

tpowell.ca wrote:

More to the point, is there anything at all the 9700 does better than the 9800 ?

No, the 9800 was just a slight update to the GPU. It's better in every way.
See here for info: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1077/2

The extent of the changes were limited primarily to improving Hyper-Z III, more specifically in enhancing the Z Cache and optimizing it for the next-generation of games. There have also been improvements to ATI's Z and Color compression algorithms that improve performance in AA modes, since the algorithms aren't active in non-AA environments.

Baoran wrote:

appiah4 wrote:

The only advantage to keeping the 9700PRO is that it is exponentially rarer than the 9800PRO, but it's also more prone to failure over time.

I have a 9800 (in all respects equivalent to the 9700PRO, actually even built on a 9700PRO board with an R360 and 9800PRO BIOS) and a 9800PRO, and the speed difference is around 15%.

'
I thought the reason for 9700 pros failures were often the shim problem and if you fix that they don't really fail more often than 9800pro?

The shim actually exists on the 9800PRO as well.

appiah4 wrote:

Baoran wrote:

appiah4 wrote:

The only advantage to keeping the 9700PRO is that it is exponentially rarer than the 9800PRO, but it's also more prone to failure over time.

I have a 9800 (in all respects equivalent to the 9700PRO, actually even built on a 9700PRO board with an R360 and 9800PRO BIOS) and a 9800PRO, and the speed difference is around 15%.

'
I thought the reason for 9700 pros failures were often the shim problem and if you fix that they don't really fail more often than 9800pro?

The shim actually exists on the 9800PRO as well.

Yes but the shape of the stock heatsink has been changed for 9800pro that the shim doesn't cause problems.

Ok. So other than rarity, there is no meaningful reason to use a 9700Pro over a 9800Pro.
Is the DVI output as reliable between them ? I am aware that there were many cards with DVI compatibility issues.

I remember removing the shim on my first 9500NP and gaining significant OC headroom, which means it was probably running extremely hot before the removal.

The Serpent Rider wrote:

the 9700PRO for me is a little more interesting

I would avoid any long use of 9700 Pro. They are painfully hard to find in working condition and die very randomly. 9800 Pro dies randomly too, but quite easy to find.

it's difficult for me to comment, but I've had 3 R300 cards so far and they were reliable (but all 9500s)

also on forums 9800PROs dying were a very common theme, but it's true that the number of 9700s around was a lot lower, so that doesn't mean much.

but yes, most 9700/9800 had very poor cooling.

Yeah I think the design was intentional. Maybe to protect the exposed die from heatsink impacts? The shim causes a gap, separating the die from the heatsink, and they used phase change compound that still conducts some heat with a gap. It was their first exposed die GPU on the desktop.

If the chip isn't at >90C, I don't know if that would be a cause of failures though. On the other hand, the fans like to die, and then it would most certainly overheat.

Both Radeon 9700 and 9800 suffer from BGA RAM failures. That's just my speculation, but only Samsung-based cards are affected the most. Infineon/Hynix cards are relatively safe to use.

Not really, but you could get a 256mb FireGL X1 and change the bios device Id and have a 256mb 9700Pro, alot cheaper than a 9800Pro 256mb

swaaye wrote:

Yeah I think the design was intentional. Maybe to protect the exposed die from heatsink impacts? The shim causes a gap, separating the die from the heatsink, and they used phase change compound that still conducts some heat with a gap. It was their first exposed die GPU on the desktop.

If the chip isn't at >90C, I don't know if that would be a cause of failures though. On the other hand, the fans like to die, and then it would most certainly overheat.

I don't think radeon 9700 pro has any kind of temperature sensor so you wouldn't know that a gap between the chip and the heatsink had been formed before the card dies.
I still have my old radeon 9700pro with the original box too and it works, but I don't think I would use it in any build before taking it apart and either removing the shim or putting something there that would fill the possible gap between the chip and the heatsink.

tpowell.ca wrote:

More to the point, is there anything at all the 9700 does better than the 9800 ?

Yes, it's better at leaving lasting impressions among gamers and serving as rhetorical fuel for modern debates.

By the way you can softmod 9700 into 9800, which alleviates the performance gap.

The Serpent Rider wrote:

By the way you can softmod 9700 into 9800, which alleviates the performance gap.

Is the inverse possible? I have this card:

A Radeon 9800 built using a 9700PRO PCB and an R360 GPU. I want to softmod it into a Radeon 9700PRO (Because I would rather have one of those than a Radeon 9800) - if I flash the BIOS, will it work?