I'd try an older driver. 4.2 or 3.8 perhaps. Strange problem!

I wonder if it's an EDID problem with the TV. Something that manifests with 98. I've also seen some behavior variation with ATI driver releases and how they interpret EDID data. Do you have any other DVI monitors to try?

swaaye wrote:

I wonder if it's an EDID problem with the TV. Something that manifests with 98. I've also seen some behavior variation with ATI driver releases and how they interpret EDID data. Do you have any other DVI monitors to try?

I'm leaning toward this. I've tried 4.2, Omega, 5.9, 6.1 all same thing. I have a monitor but no dvi cable ha! Only the HDMI>DVI adapter that I use on the TV that works w/xp and post.

thepolish wrote:

swaaye wrote:

I wonder if it's an EDID problem with the TV. Something that manifests with 98. I've also seen some behavior variation with ATI driver releases and how they interpret EDID data. Do you have any other DVI monitors to try?

I'm leaning toward this. I've tried 4.2, Omega, 5.9, 6.1 all same thing. I have a monitor but no dvi cable ha! Only the HDMI>DVI adapter that I use on the TV that works w/xp and post.

Following up again - tried a different TV (we have 2 desktops and use 2 different 32" TVs as monitors) - the Vizio brand with the same HDMI>DVI cable setup and it works with W98. It is my Samsung that the card/W98 doesn't seem to like. I guess my only options are to swap monitor/tvs or find a KVM that will act as a middle man so to speak and inject an EDID to force windows to pick it up. Not sure if you can FORCE Windows to output over that DVI.

Heh the modern equivalent of this is I had two rokus with me and gave one to some co-workers at a hotel and I had the other one. Their roku wouldn't work on their TV so I had the brilliant idea of switching rokus and it worked fine. Would be interesting to know what's going on behind the scenes for these devices.

Good conversation here on Ars technica - and I think its similar to what I'm fighting with - they're talking about overscan but I think the bad data /lack of data being sent to the W98 box is a good jumping off point for me. I'm hoping I can tweak SOMETHING to get this to output on this TV. https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=24770773

I should mention - Windows 98 WILL boot into safe mode though the DVI

Yeah I've seen that behavior. The ATI BIOS works differently with the EDID than their drivers.

You could try a EDID simulator. I have a DVI model from Startech. But they aren't cheap and I'm not sure if it will work. I had some funky problems with it and older ATI drivers.

You may just want to live with VGA. 😀

swaaye wrote:

But really you may just want to live with VGA. 😀

I would except for my desk setup - I don't want to have 2 "monitors" on my desk! I ordered an active vga to hdmi cable (vga output from device to hdmi to monitor) and we'll see how it goes. Reviews seem legitimate.

I want my writing / working space open w/o that other monitor. Good place to store joysticks and what not!

Cheap active vga to hdmi worked. But capacitor blew. Went to replace and I've never had this issue but I burnt out a ring in the pcb so I've toasted the motherboard. I'm kicking myself because I spent the last year rebuilding this (was my first xp machine, piece of my youth I guess) and now it's gone. Ughhhh 😢 😢

More to come - we'll see if a different motherboard makes any difference (different chipset too). Just purchased for about $47 USD

Asus P5PE-VM
Pentium 4 651 (Cedar Mill 3.4GHz) (LGA 775 instead of my old 478)

Will report if a different motherboard changes the equation or if its just that MSI board / 845 chipset combo that didn't allow DVI on windows 98.

It would seem it is the TV for sure with the dvi on this card and W98.

Finally got the new mobo working (nos board had blown caps I had to replace).

Strangely this board has quite a few quirks that my 478 board didn't and maybe I'll do a post on it, but software wise 98se2me will NOT WORK with this board/setup.

As far as the video card - finally broke down and bought a vga to hdmi active cable and that allowed for the TV to be used. Moral of the story - newer Samsung tvs don't play well with 9500 ati cards in w98 for dvi output. Regardless of other hardware configuration.

Yeah you could also experiment with a DVI EDID simulator. Expensive but handy. I actually got some old cards successfully working with my 4K TV HDMI yesterday by putting the EDID emulator in the middle and telling the cards it's a 1600x1200 monitor.

You can actually get pre-programmed EDID emulators for less than 20$ US from China through the usual auction places.

I might try that. Right now the biggest issue I have is it will output to 1080 but then it doesn't fill the screen, only makes the big screen panable / scrollable.

That and I tried kernelex with all the subs to 2018 and broke daemon tools 🤣