VOGONS


First post, by xjas

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I'm thinking of biting the bullet & replacing my EUC EP19AV + Dell 2001FP setup with a single wide panel, for a few different reasons but mainly so I won't have the gap between monitors directly in front of my face, or have to turn my head to look at one or the other when I'm gaming. The 2001FP also has some "old age" issues (noisy PSU, dim, needs warm-up time) that make me think it's time to consider a replacement.

There are a few on my local used site I'm looking at. I'm not married the idea of a Dell panel, but these seem to offer all the features I want. What I'd especially like to know, if any of you have one, is how well they handle retro PCs through the VGA port. I have a couple Win98 boxes on my KVM that output 1280x1024, and some DOS PCs as well. The Dell 2001FP is great for these, but so is the EP19AV which has some magic DSP that just handles every hackmode & tweakmode I've thrown at it. (I'll be keeping the EUC and selling off the 2001FP if I do upgrade.)

The contenders are:

2407WFP ($100)
+ 16x10 display (1920x1200)
+ 1600x1200 fills the height of the screen without scaling. I tend to use 1280x1024 more though.
- a bit small for the space - I'm width-limited and my current dual-head setup is ~91cm which is actually a bit too wide. This model is only 55cm so I'll lose a fair bit of screen real-estate.
- this one's at a shop that's kind of pissed me off in the past. Not so much that I wouldn't buy from them though.

u2711b ($100)
- 16x9 display but higher res (2560x1440)
+ probably the best overall size for my space

3008WFP ($200, might be able to haggle)
+ 16x10, 2560x1600. I do prefer 16x10, although at this size & resolution I think it wouldn't matter as much.
+ tons of inputs - this has two DVI ports, HDMI, and displayport which means I woudn't have to route any of my modern PCs through the VGA KVM, which causes some issues because it doesn't pass EDID. It also means I don't have to buy a separate DVI switch. In other words, this would solve a lot of my problems at once.
- twice as expensive as the others. I'm on a budget right now & that extra hundred is a big deal.
- possibly a little large for my space. If they made a 27" version of this with all the same inputs I'd be all over that, but it doesn't look like they did. Also getting a bit large to display 1280x1024 without scaling.

All of these have composite, S-Video & component, which I also need in this spot.

Honestly I was about to contact the seller of the U2711b, until I spotted the 3008WFP. Seriously thinking the extra inputs & resolution might actually be worth twice the price. If any of you guys own one of the above, I'd appreciate any feedback you have!

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Reply 1 of 5, by dr_st

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I would advise against the aging 2407WFP, as it is old-tech VA panel which is the worst kind for games due to excessive response time on gray-to-gray transitions. If it's the original 2407WFP, it has no overdrive (I think), so may ghost a lot; the updated 2407WFP-HC has overdrive which reduces response time but can introduce overshoot issues.

It also limits you to a single DVI port for modern use, whereas the U2711/3008WFP have extra DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort and overall give you much more versatility. Yes, the U2711 has the same inputs (essentially) as the 3008WFP, not sure why you didn't know that:
8.jpg

Between all these, I'd go for a U2711. It's the newest of the bunch, has very good size/resolution balance and is the best bang for the buck.

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Reply 2 of 5, by bestemor

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Funny you posted this today, heh...
I was just testing my second(third) recent attempt at a Dell LCD with vga-input, and was considering posting a similar topic myself.

Granted, I have more or less* given up on a dual purpose monitor, hence focusing on retro, and cheaping out with 24'' and 22'' models...
Upgrading from a classic (9-year) old 2209WA model, for mostly the same reasons (age...). Better to buy some spares now, before all the 'good' monitors with vga disappear ?

Anyway, I have already tried the Dell P2215H(?), and it was not able to properly show 1280x960@60, the chip apparantly reading it as 1600x900(!) according to the OSD, and cutting(not showing) the top edge/part of my desktop as well as centered heavily to the right. And no attempts at adjustments would work. So, I returned that one, and ordered a P2217H instead.

But, this one also shows the exact same error!
Granted, I may most likely not ever use that resolution on this small a monitor (1152x864 seemed better suited as desktop), but still... ?

QUESTION: Anyone know why this error/behaviour occurs ?
(and why is 1600x1200 not acceptable, while 1920x1080 is?)

Even so, I think I may keep this one. As a 'bonus', it actually shows the 848x480 resolution which my U2412M does refuse to.
(weird resolution that my PCI FX5200 seems to have as an option)

*:The whole reason for this endeavour, was that my very recently purchased U2412Mc did not enable/tolerate ANY 75hz refresh rates. And even at 71hz+ it did give me a black screen.
(my other/much older PCI vga card I tested with, was for some reason a bit on the 'eager' side, right from the POST process... and used 72(3?)hz (720x400), directly from vgabios I think, with no way to change it).

Now, that U2412Mc is otherwise great, and have no problem with 1280x960, and has a native 1920x1200, gotta love that extra height 😀. I even bought a 'white' model, being tired of black.... Just sorely missing the 75hz option... 😢 😢

I was perhaps not doing my proper dues when researching this U2412M monitor, but I honestly believed ALL the Dell monitors with VGA could do at least 75hz on some few chosen resolutions.

Hence me going for the P-series models.

Otherwise, if you can live with 24 inches (and limited to 60hz), the U2412M should be right up there... 😎

PS: I have bought some other used models as well (U2410f among others), but currently concentrating on new and unused ones, for longevity etc. They seems to last about 10years at most(daily usage), so... with used ones you never know the mileage, and the good old ones (used) are mostly 7-9 years old already when they pop up on our local 'craigslist' (in my experience at least).

https://www.pcliquidations.com/p14825-dell-u2 … f-24-widescreen
..even has Component-input and PIP.
https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-monitor-dell-u2410/2/

Last edited by bestemor on 2019-02-04, 21:03. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 3 of 5, by dr_st

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Most LCDs of that era are limited to 60Hz, and even if they display 75Hz, the end up throwing out every 5th frame; still better than showing a blank screen, of course. A few LCD panels can be overclocked or can naturally display higher frequencies, but it's typically hard to find this information. I know that the 2209WA is one monitor for which it's been proven that it can display 75Hz without dropping frames. It can also do component over VGA so you could connect consoles with a passive adapter. It's surprisingly retro-friendly.

Modern LCDs already have some panels that can do 120Hz or 144Hz or even more, so I expect they can also handle 75Hz; however, fewer and fewer of them have VGA inputs...

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Reply 4 of 5, by bestemor

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Well, the U2412M I am talking about, was made (brand new) last August (2018), heh...
Hence my surprise !! If the decade old 2209WA could do it, why not this one... oh well.

dr_st wrote:

Modern LCDs already have some panels that can do 120Hz or 144Hz or even more, so I expect they can also handle 75Hz; however, fewer and fewer of them have VGA inputs...

THAT is what it is all about, yes... No effing active adapters/scalers etc necessary.

As for my current bad luck with the P-series models, I assume the consistent erronous interpretation of 1280x960 as 1600x900 must be a BUG in the DSP-chip ? All the other resolutions worked out fine(even 1600x900!), just this particular 1280-one went haywire on both monitors...